Cooking sous vide and reheating meats

Hi, I have been cooking steaks sous vide for some time now and am wondering what the best way to cook, chill and reheat steaks are ? I have tried a few times but often the steaks come out quite dry and lacking the moistness of a good steak. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Phil

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Brendan_Lee_56950

Are you seasoning before cooking and chilling? It is recommended that if you aren't going to be eating it right away after cooking to not season until after it's reheated and seared.

Phil_Bartley_37471

Thanks for your response, I've tried with and without seasoning, the end result is still very similar.

Brendan_Lee_56950

The other thing to think about is how you are chilling the meat. A rapid chilling, I find, is much better than just throwing them in the fridge. So using a ice bath to chill quickly then putting it in the fridge has been much better after a reheating process.

It would be helpful to know the process you currently use.

Phil_Bartley_37471

We are using good quality 12 oz rib eye steaks, vacuum packed with thyme, garlic and beef dripping. We then sous vide for 2 hours at 52.5c, rapid chill in an ice bath and store. To serve we have reheat for 15 minutes in the water bath, dry the steak then sear in a hot pan.

Tim_Sutherland_52834

52.5C is a very low cook temp with only 2hr in the water. From a food safety point of view I would only cook and serve this meat. I would not chill and serve later.

If you like your meat at this temp, I would sear the meat before bagging and I would only buy the protein from a place I know where the meat has not been mechanically tenderised.

Your retherm time of 15 minutes is low. If you cook a 25mm steak at 50C it will take 1:34hr for the core to reach 50C. If you cook the same steak at 70C it will take 1:39hr for the core to reach 70C. It takes time for the core to reach the temp of the water bath. The cold fat in the rib eye will make the steak feel less moist.

fred_kellermann_36764

at 52C what would be a good length of time for cooking and chill?

Tim_Sutherland_52834

Using the Polyscience Sous Vide App, cooking at 52C will not pasteurise to core with in 6 hours.

davidattala

I would tend to think that there is no problem with the initial time and temperature. I generally don't think it's necessary to pasteurize meat like we tend to do for poultry because the risk of contamination is not the same as the same pathogens are not present. If you were serving to people with compromised immune systems, maybe - but then again, those people probably shouldn't be eating rare meat IMO.

If you're worried about surface contamination, place the steaks in the freezer for 10 mins, give them a good pre-sear - without salt. Once cool enough, bag, bath and final sear to order.
I would use the Sous-Vide App to get a sense of when the steak should come to temperature, but would also try not to leave in there for an excessively long time, like over the course of an entire restaurant dinner service. I've always put the bagged steaks in an ice bath for a good hour after I no longer need them. I've had no issues re-therming the following day. I'd say steaks done this way are fine for 3-4 days before you have to start asking questions.

Tim_Sutherland_52834

If you buy meat from supermarket chains that sell meat at a low price and it is pre cut, there is a very high chance the meat has been mechanically tenderised - that is many small sharp needles forced into the center of the meat. Any pathogens on the surface of the meat are now in the once sterile muscle. You can not tell with the naked eye that the meat has been mechanically tenderised. Searing the meat prior to SV will reduce the pathogens only on the surface on the meat.

If you are following the cook-chill-store SV method it is best practice to pasteurise the protein to core.

Whilst beef has a potentially lower risk than poultry, cross contamination is a real risk. You can buy your beef from the best purveyor, but don't wash your hands between opening the bagged salad and touching the meat, you run the risk of making people sick. Just ask the many hundreds affected by Cyclospora during the last few months.

davidattala

Fortunately, I believe because of those recent incidents, at least in Canada, meat will be required to carry a special label if it's been mechanically tenderized.

Chris_Young_80640

@David_Attala — I do not believe that is correct unless it is a very recent change. I have purchased meat at the Costco in Victoria, BC recently and there was no indication of mechanical tenderization; and yet, by careful inspection you could see that this had indeed occurred.

Basically, you're correct that the inside of a healthy, non-punctured muscle should be sterile (even chicken actually) and so cooking below 54 °C is safe IF you do a searing step that will destroy surface contamination. Chicken, pork, beef, all can and do have the potential to have nasty surface contamination that non-pasteurizing temperatures won't kill. So, if you're going to not pasteurize the meat, that's okay in my opinion if you do a good searing step and if you are very certain that the meat hasn't been punctured during processing.

davidattala

I'd read a while back that they were supposed to be mandating labels on all mechanically tenderized meat by the end of this summer. Not like the government to promise one thing and do another though...

Phil_Bartley_37471

Thanks for your comments. The meat we use comes direct from a local farm and we butcher ourselves, with full traceability on all the meat. This allows us to check every stage and ensure that the meat is well treated, definitely no tenderization !

Lennard__34626

If I do want to use a jaccard to tenderize meat(assuming it hasn't already been done), when should I do it?

After the meat has been seared and before sous vide?

Chris_Young_80640

After searing and before cooking sous vide would be safest. Essentially, blade tenderization (Jaccard) is taking the outside inside. Searing the surface first greatly reduces (but doesn't fully eliminate) the risk.

As for the original question, what temperature are you reheating at if it only takes 15 minutes to reheat?

robert.c.brown15

You NEED to pasteurize steak if you are going to freeze it or refrigerate it for more than 4 hours, right?

Chris_Young_80640

One interpretation of the FDA food code would say, yes, you need to pasteurize meats and seafood if they will be cooked and chilled.

BUT, there is some loophole here: If I just sear the surface, and the rest of the meat never exceed refrigerator temperatures, can you chill and reheat later? It's certainly done commercially. Or, what if I raise the temperature for one hour into the danger zone, then refrigerate it, and happen to eat before cooking it again? Yes, that's probably technically legal too. Like any regulation, there is some grayness involved and it comes down to how it gets interpreted.

robert.c.brown15

Thanks @Chris_Young!

So on a Sunday, if I were to prepare a dinner or two for the weekday, I could pre-sear (or don't pre-sear? just post-sear?), sous vide for 45 to an hour (or however long it will take depending on the size of the steak) to get it to core temperature, ice bath, freeze, and I'm ok. I'm not concerned with legal things as I'm just a homecook, but safety of myself and who I cook for is something I do care about. Eliminating the length of time to cook to pasteurization when possible and safe is always a good thing.

To thaw, can I leave it on the counter for a few hours to thaw completely (or put it in the fridge 24-36 hours ahead of time) and then sear before serving? Or because it is already cooked I have to reheat it in a waterbath? I don't have any experience thawing cooked meats, just raw meats so I wasn't sure if the process/safety changes.

But after reading that, thawing isn't the same as rewarming something right? I guess I'd have to find a way to warm it through without cooking it again.

Thank you!

Chris_Young_80640

Since your not concerned about legal things, the safest thing to do would be (1) use meat that hasn't been blade tenderized, (2) presear for flavor and to greatly reduce any surface bacteria (3) cook if necessary, but don't overly worry about pasteurization (4) chill and refrigerate.

The inside of a healthy muscle should be sterile, and searing eliminates bacteria where they're most likely to be found. Keeping things deeply refrigerated (2 °C) or frozen will further reduce the risk of any anaerobic grown if, somehow, they survived.

Tim_Sutherland_52834

@Robert_Brown, the time difference to cook a steak SV to core and then to pasteurisation is about doubble. If it takes you 40 mins to SV the steak it will take approximately 80 to pasteurise. If you want to know better times and numbers use something like Poliscience's Sous Vide App, it is well worth the ~$5 when you are sous viding meat.

From a work flow standpoint if you want to have proteins to eat later the easiest thing to do is SV a bunch of meat on a Sunday afternoon while watching the footy. Cook all to pasteurise to core. After chilling them place in the fridge or freezer depending on how long until you wish to eat them. When you want to retherm them to eat, drop in a water bath as is from the fridge or freezer. Only thaw on the counter if you want first hand experience of food borne illness. Note it takes time for the meat to reach the temp of the water bath even when cooked.

robert.c.brown15

@Tim_Sutherland when I reheat an item in the waterbath, do I use the same core temperature setting I cooked them to? Does it take as long to reheat as it does to cook initially cook them to core temperature?

Tim_Sutherland_52834

You can retherm a few degrees lower than cook temp and yes it will take just as long for the core to reach water bath temp as it did to cook - longer if frozen. The good thing by pasteurising to core is you can pull the protein on retherm when the core is a few °C lower than water bath temp. If you look at heat graphs you will see it takes a long time for the core to heat that last degree. As the protein is fully cooked and pasteurised it is safe to consume and the one degree cooler center will not be noticed by the diner.

Kalle_36817

A little late in here but I have a couple of questions about what @robert_brown gain here by "preparing" on Sunday since he sears steaks then SV and chill and freeze. On the day he will use it he will have to thaw it and SV or just SV direct from frozen?

Wouldn't be just faster to presear and SV on the he shall eat it and since the time to reach core temp will be the same either he cook or reheats?

And since he then SV and eat in a short time when it is finished why pasteuriz? The only reason I see is because he's over scared for bacteria in the meat.

So @chris or @tim ?

Chris_Young_80640

The only reason to pasteurize is if you want a higher margin of safety. For most healthy adults, and for meats that are intact and can be assumed to be sterile on the inside, I personally believe pasteurization to be unnecessary if it will be cooked and seared and eaten within a short period of time.

Alvin_28951

I have a question, so if I SV a steak, chilled, and place in the fridge, what is the best way to reheat if I want to serve it to customer in the restaurant? I can not reheat in the waterbath until it reachs core temp since it takes too long.

Brandon_Byrd_40557

I grill straight from the fridge and get good results after just a couple of minutes.

tshewman

what temp do you think the customer is ordering at? A few minutes in water bath and quick sear to finish should take less than 30 minutes (or 2 drinks and an appetizer). I would suspect that should be plenty of time? Perhaps my timing is way off (I'm not a chef!!) as this is what I do at home for weeknight dinners and seems to work fine (although my kids still don't like the wine I serve ;-)..).

davidattala

I'm not sure how quick paced your service is, but you can keep a few steaks in an insert that has moderately warm tap water in it to at least take the chill off of the meat. The core will come up to temp quicker, however if you're using really thin steaks or you're not able to sear fast enough, you'll get a gray band around the seared sides similar to traditional cooking methods. If you can pre-sear the steaks before bagging them, you'll get a better final flavor and it will require less direct, intense heat to refresh your initial sear.

andrewyoung2009_25361

Hi - I am also falling into the LOVE SV camp but confused about re-heat. If I cook ( pre-sear or otherwise) to an agreed rare state of 49 degrees C - how do I get it back to 49 and pan sear it without risking over cooking my delicately achieved rareness? And ! Is 49 hot enough to serve to a discerning public? What temperature should meat be when it reaches a diners table? I like the grill sear / warm idea - but how can I be sure that 1) the steak is hot enough to eat and 2) that it does not pass it's original cooking temperature?

If it takes as long to re-heat as to cook - how does that work? My diners will not wait one hour for a steak!

Confused and in need of help!!!

Brendan_Lee_56950

49C is really low IMO. The rarest I've done and enjoyed is 51C but I normally use 54-55C for a medium rare consistency.