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Water Displacement Method

robert.c.brown15

Hey Guys,

I am thinking about possibly buying the Anova Sous Vide Circulator which would be my first sous vide circulator and my first sous vide cooking experience, etc. Anyway, I had a question about the water displacement method. I have no plans to buy a foodsaver anytime soon and will never buy a chamber vacuum sealer. I also don't have room for a foodsaver. I will be using the circulator with a 5 or so gallon cooler and then using saran wrap to cover the top of it to keep the heat in/lessen evaporation.

Anyway, I understand the concept of water displacement as I've used it before to when freezing foods. For sous vide, I plan on hanging an open Ziploc bag over the edge of the cooler. That is correct right? I watched the video but wanted to make sure I'm understanding it correctly.

Also, I am looking forward to using sous vide with vegetables, along with steaks, etc. But are there certain foods, like vegetables, that the water displacement method will not work as well? Any limitations?

I do not want to buy any additional things such as foodsaver/ziploc hand pumps. I just want to use the bags I currently have in my cupboard for all my sous vide needs.

What do you guys think of all of this? Doable? Doing my best to not make sous vide a money pit. At least not yet! Thank you!

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John_Paul_Khoury_17236

Great success with many things using water displacement method with a slow cooker and a PID unit. The pre searing was exceptional also. https://www.facebook.com/chefjohnpaulkhoury/media_set?set=a.10202034756781272.1073741891.1556952275&type=1

robert.c.brown15

This water displacement thing is awesome. Potatoes, steaks, and hollandaise are were great. Corn with butter in it was difficult. Tended to float a little so next time I'm going to try to weight the bag, but it seemed to still be ok and I moved them around from time to time.

When you guys do vegetables first and then your protein at a lower temp, can you just leave the vegetables at that lower temp to stay warm? Or will it slowly negatively affect the vegetables? I'm throwing them in for the last 20 minutes of the steak or so, but if I can just leave them in for the whole 2 hours with the steak I'd rather do that. Less to think about.

Am I supposed to shock the vegetables with chilled water if keeping in the fridge for a few hours or does it not matter so much with vegetables as it would for steaks and other proteins (safety concern here, not so much brightening the colors concern).

Thanks so much. This SV is awesome. Made eggs benedict for breakfast today. So good.

robert.c.brown15

Maybe half melts wasn't the right word, but it was...softer? I'm using gallon freezer bags that are BPA free.

Thanks for the info about leaving it in the water! My girlfriend actually solved that dilemma earlier today though. I won't be leaving it in the water overnight unless I'm cooking something...

seijoed

With the commercial gear I do the same, smoked meats really perfume that tank though.

Clean it out once a week or so with some vinegar.

Brendan_Lee_56950

I leave my circulator in the water pretty much all the time out of sheer laziness and other than some calcium buildup from the water quality here it's fine.

seijoed

Tastes like chicken!

Samuel_68313

I've had ziplock bags up to 95c without any issues. But personally if the bag half melts, I am not eating the food in that bag.

robert.c.brown15

Hey guys so I have two quick things.

Yesterday I got the Anova Sous Vide circulator. It is fantastic. I did a bunch of different eggs and carrots.

I used the water displacement method of the carrots (used the recipe on Chefsteps) and learned that it is much easier to seal a bag in something other than the waterbath. That was hard and painful. But the results were great.

I noticed though that at that high heat the ziploc bag had a different texture to it (half melted?) and some of it even seemed to seize up and harden. Hard to explain, and not something I'm worried about, but kinda weird. I'm sure it was because of the high heat. I don't see that happening at 60C, but I'll find out later this weekend.

I do have another question though. After using the circuclator yesterday when I was all done I let the water cool down, took the circulator out, took it apart and dried all of it and removed a hair that was wrapped around the propeller, emptied the water out of the cooler, and then put the circulator back together.

Since you can do 72 hour cooks sous vide, would it have been a problem to leave the circulator in the bath, but not running? Everything in the waterbath is stainless steel. Can I leave it in the waterbath for a few days? Saving me the hassle of having to fill up my cooler every time I want to use it (about once a day).

Thanks for the help!

robert.c.brown15

Thanks for the help! I never thought that would be ok but I'm glad to hear it is!

Brendan_Lee_56950

Yeah totally, I just like it for convenience sake to do it separately but then again i'm a bit meticulous like that.

timdebnyc

Two items in a ziploc are fine just make sure you push them apart once you have sealed the bag for even cooking.

With a ziploc you can easily pull one item and leave the other one in the bag to stay warm.

Brendan_Lee_56950

Yeah, two in one bag is no problem at all, the only reason I tend to bag them separately sometimes is so I can leave them in the bath to stay warm while I sear off one at a time.

seijoed

Yes, it is but it was a difficult question

You hit a core, your steak then you get the finger feel for hers.

robert.c.brown15

I'm actually not asking different temperature because I assumed that was impossible.

And she is not a fan of rare or probably sous vide medium rare because since it will be cooked edge it edge it will look even more "rare." Fortunately I don't care too much about what she likes, but the first couple sous vide steaks will probably have to be how she likes it so she will be more open to trying different things as I cook more things sous vide. I figured I could try 135F or so as that would be between the medium rare I want and the pink she'd want.

But anyway, I originally am just asking about doing two steaks (or other comparable cuts of meat) in the same bag and if that was possible/safe.

seijoed

Are you asking different temp?

That is a tricky one. So your spouse hates rare?

robert.c.brown15

So I bought a sous vide immersion circulator today!

It will be here in probably 2 weeks.

Anyway, I will be doing the water displacement method and using a cooler most likely to contain the water bath.

My question is, since I will only be cooking for myself and 1 other person, are there times when I can put two pieces of meat (chicken breasts, steaks, other cuts of meats) in the same bag, or does it always have to be separate bags? I'm assuming separate bags to ensure even cooking and for safety reasons, but I wanted to ask because if I can put two strip steaks in one, one gallon Ziplock bag, then I might want to do that to save bags.

Thanks for your help!

seijoed

The infrared measure surface temp, so different use-case.

robert.c.brown15

Thanks for the info. I think I'll hold off on the thermocouples as I don't do most of those advantages. On Chefsteps the thermocouples are cheaper than the thermapen.

Now, what about infrared thermometers? Are they very useful? Or once again will a Thermapen be more than enough?

Thank you!

seijoed

Certainly.

The thermocouples are nice but cost more. Advantages would be -

Multiple sources oven/bulb temp,

works great in the smoker

works with sous vide

if you have an interface you can collect data (great for coffee roasting profiles)

They look much cooler

robert.c.brown15

I definitely plan on buying a thermapen. Would a thermacouple be worth owning as well? I won't be vacuum packing anything, all water displacement. Will that be an issue with a thermacouple? I'd have to use that foam tape because I couldn't seal the ziploc bag completely with a cord sticking out.

I see the advantage of a thermacouple but could I get by with a just a thermapen and trying to time it right? I don't smoke things so other uses for a thermacouple are not many.

seijoed

As @Brendan says, don't make it too complicated until you have a circulator.

Then also keep in mind that the whole core/to core is much less of interest in beef / pork / poultry -

if you run over a little it doesn't really matter. Fish and seafood is another matter.

That is why the eggs and lobster poaching recipes are much more critical.

Brendan_Lee_56950

Well if you are using the beer cooler method then yes it'll drop more and more with the food that is added. I personally wouldn't recommend cooking from frozen in the beer cooler method but as you'll find when you get a circulator, the temperature doesn't fluctuate much even when you're throwing in a frozen hunk of meat.

As an example, I like to cook my higher temp products first and I have to throw in probably 3-4 cups of ice to bring down the temperature 10-15C to do other cooks. So if you are throwing in a frozen strip steak the temperature fluctuation isn't going to be huge in a heated bath.

robert.c.brown15

@Johan_Edstrom, when you cook from frozen, do you just throw it in the waterbath and add an hour or so depending on the product to make up for thawing time in the bath? I guess since I am not vacuum sealing it, after a time that I think may be long enough I could check the core temperature and if it is still too low just let it go back in the bath for whatever I think would be long enough. Is that ok/standard practice? I guess Dr. Baldwin's charts are very helpful for all of this too.

And is there a point where if the temperature drops by too much because say I add one big piece of frozen meat or two frozen strip steaks that he recovery time is too slow that it could create a safety problem. Or do I just add additional amount of cooking time to compensate? I hope to be purchasing an Anova Sous Vide circulator soon so I won't be using a beer cooler, hot water, and a thermometer, but I also won't be using a 1k professional immersion circulator.

Thanks for the help!

Brendan_Lee_56950

@robert I don't check the core temp really anytime. As Johan mentioned, one of the nice things about this style of cooking is to be able to throw it in and walk away for a portion of time to do other things. I don't really see anything wrong with using the thermapen but I would only check it once to avoid poking it a bunch of times and risking introducing bacteria to the inside of the protein.

One thing to consider is that leaving out a protein for 30-60 minutes to "come up to room temp" doesn't actually do that. I believe Kenji from serious eats did an experiment and the temperature difference after that amount of time was really negligible. The only starting temp scenario I really add extra time for is if it is starting from frozen. I sometimes buy pork chops in bulk, season them (sans salt) and cryovac so I can just throw them in directly from the freezer. When I do that I typically add about 30-45 minutes to the cook time.

seijoed

I think you are missing a little bit one of the benefits of cooking proteins this way, once you have

hit core you can keep it there for a pretty good while. That is why you'll see time ranges as in

minimum -> maximum, maximum being where the texture starts changing in often "iffy" ways.

I cook most things from frozen, I also tend to cook bigger pieces, they are easier to plate and

are even more forgiving than say a steak.

For core temp in fish/lobster/sensitive proteins, I'd shove a thermocouple in the bag, if

you look at the store stuff you'll see nice thermometers there that are perfect for that use.

robert.c.brown15

@Brendan_Lee, I wanted to check one last thing. Would a thermapen do too much damage to the raw meat if I use it to check the beginning core temperature? Should I just take whatever I'm cooking sous vide out of the refrigerator for 30 to 60 minutes and then put it in the bath and assume the core temperature is high enough that I can more or less follow the chart times. Do you check the core temperature of everything before you put it in the bath? And I'm talking about a 1 to 2 inch thick steak or something comparable to that, not a massive piece of meat that would obviously need to sit outside a refrigerator for a few hours.

Thank you! I'm running out of questions which is great. Definitely feeling more and more comfortable with all of this.

Brendan_Lee_56950

That's part of the cooking process, just like when you throw frozen peas into the pot of boiling water, it'll drop but rebound quickly. The exception is if you're not using a strong circulator or something like a beer cooler method where there is no possibility for the water to rebound.

robert.c.brown15

@Chris, can I trust baldwin's chart?

And thanks for the heads up about starting the timer when the food goes in. Why don't you wait for the water temperature to come back up though? Were all the times created with the expectation that it may take a few minutes for the water temperature to rise back up?

Chris_Young_80640

NathanM never did frozen charts for MC. Although there were attempts. The reason we skipped them was that, in the end, simulating the moving phase change boundary condition is an extremely difficult modeling exercise, and IIRC we never built a satisfactory model and could not find anyone else who had either.

Brendan_Lee_56950

Start the timer as soon as it goes in.