Pressure cooked Veal stock

Just wrapping up making some brown veal stock (via pressure cooker). Prior to using a PC, I've done the more traditional FL veal stock. First couple of attempts using the PC went well, but they didn't seem as dense as TFL. In my mind, (please help here) the PC recipes are typical of that for stocks that do not include/involve a remouillage. Today when I finished the my veal stock, I thought "why not" see if I can get more out of the bones. It appeared to work quite nicely and much more depth than previous PC attempts. Obviously more bias flavor due to the roasting of the bones-which I coated with tomato paste( thanks for THAT tip from the beef stock chefsteps!! :-)). I used fresh aromatics (softened) for the remouillage but it seemed to work quite nicely. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

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Manfred_18311

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you have cooked some nice veal stock. As for the density, in traditional

cooking you always have some liquid vaporized during the cooking which is

naturally not the case in a PC. Just reduce your finished stock by 15% and you

should get a nice density.

tshewman

Thanks Manfred. I reduced probably a bit more than 15% and have to admit, I am impressed with the result. Now I'm wondering why this isn't normally done (for PC veal stock). At least I haven't read of it anywhere.

Johan_Edstrom_5586

Any PC stocks you do, I would say, skim, add a little more liquid and then reduce.

tshewman

Thanks Johan. I am wondering why not the remouillage? Even with bones at about 2"/5cm thick, there seemed to be allot more to be extracted given the result here? I'm also assuming safety is not a concern (can't see why it would be)?

Chris_Young_80640

@Todd — Whether or not to use a lot of bones in a PC stock depends on what you want out of a stock. Grant and I tend to bias towards more meat, and less bone. If you look at a lot of the Fat Duck stock recipes (which I played a heavy roll in developing) you'll see that they use a lot of meat and not too much bone.

Of course, many traditional stocks go the other way and rely primarily on roasted bones. But to me, bones are pretty much just calcified collagen, and they contribute more to the gelatin concentration in a stock than they do to the meaty flavor.

tshewman

@Chris - Thank you and your explanation of the collagen now makes sense on the use of meat vs bones in stocks and for that matter using either to thicken or flavor sauces. Also helps to explain why the remouillage worked and the more gelatinous finish after reduction. Nice context and thank you! Will make future adjustments across many dishes easier. Have Chef Blumenthal's at home and in search of perfection but not fat duck cookbook (yet). The other question (sorry for the tangent) relates to cooking short ribs (bone-in only). There was a question regarding difference between various cuts and distance from the bone. If I recall the collagen from bone becomes be solubilised at 58C/136F. If so, would a dual temperature (e.g. start at 58C/136F and reduce to 129F after a few hours) not lend itself to more consistency throughout? My apologies for the tangent and many thanks again.

Samuel_68313

Do you have a basic ratio of ground meat to water you use?

tshewman

@SamuelG - the meat:water is~50%. Or 1:1 meat to bones. I personally base all measurements off the bone weight. Easier to add subtract water, meat, aromatics etc than it is remove a small amount of bone. JMHO.

Samuel_68313

Yeah bone to meat that makes sense, but if we're making it with ground meat we're not seriously saying that 3kg of ground meat to 3kg of water is the way forward right?

tshewman

meat to bones, not meat to water. so 50% meat or bones to water. So in your example 1.5Kg meat to 3kg water. make sense?

Matt_67991

So if the bones are primarily for gelatin, would it ever make sense to just add gelatin to the stock instead of bones? If so, in what circumstances, and what would be a good way of figuring how to substitute? Would you just use a percentage that would get you the same gelling as a good stock?

I know bones are super cheap, but they do take up a lot of space in the pot.

tshewman

IMHO, no it wouldn't make allot of sense for a stock. The bones also add flavor (where gelatin does not). If no bones are used, I suspect allot of gelatin would be required to obtain a decent consistency AND you have to whisk/stir it is (which for stocks is typically less than ideal). For glazes and such I would understand, however for those, I personally would rather bring in flavor and gelatin over a longer period and if a small amount of thickness is desired, perhaps some xanthan gum to thicken near the finish. JMHO.

Samuel_68313

Ahh I see, I misread your post Todd. Though instinctively it still seems a huge amount of meat for such a small amount of stock.

Johan_Edstrom_5586

I'd actually advice looking at Vietnamese cooking for stock building.

tshewman

@samuelG - I thought so too (until I made it). Formerly I always have followed the more traditional bones only (e.g. The french laundry, alinea etc) type of stock recipes. However, I must agree with what Chris mentioned. Adding the meat does make it more flavorful. Now because of Chris' work (and his lab partners) playing with the combination and ratios you/we will be able to modify according to what we want from the stock.

Samuel_68313

Yeah I mean I normally add ground meat to a stock, but maybe 1kg to about 6 litres of stock, and generally like the results. Guess I will try with a crazy high ratio soon and see what it is like.

tshewman

@Samuel - Look forward to hearing your feedback. We all have our own taste and texture preferences. I personally like the added flavor and explosiveness it gives some sauces.

Bruk_Habtu_507887

Hey @Todd_Shewman_38102 ,

I know this is an old thread (4 years!) but I came across your post when trying figure out how to adapt the FL veal stocks for a PC. Do you remember the timings for the stock in the PC and any other gotchyas you came across?

Thanks!

tshewman

Hi @Bruk_Habtu_507887 for modifications of TFL veal stocks, I cook both at approx 2 hrs (I don't worry 5mi+/-) I also do a remouillage and reduce by 1/2. For the second, run, I reuse the bones mostly, but add new ground meat and veg. Following Chris' guidance (which was spot on IMHO). And for home cooks, do the same for roasted chicken stock (with less reduction bc well.....it's for my home).

Bruk_Habtu_507887

Thanks for the quick reply! I didn't have enough time to do the veal stock traditionally this week and this is going to save my dinner plans. Thank you!