Hot Smoking fish using the Salmon Pastrami recipe??? ... UPDATED, With Results!!!!

Hey,

I just caught a whole lot of oily white fish (called Kahawai here in New Zealand) and I was wondering if I could HOT smoke them using the Salmon Pastrami recipe?... I assume this shouldn't be a problem but I'm not sure what modifications I need to make.

What temp should I set the smoker to? (charcoal weber)
What internal temp should I aim for? (I seem to read 150 F alot for smoked fish)
Any other changes I should make?

I have already processed the fish and the fillets are already in the brine!

Thanks

EDIT: here is a link to the Salmon Pastrami recipe for your convenience.
http://www.chefsteps.com/activities/salmon-pastrami

Find more posts tagged with

Recipes Q's

Comments

Matt_67991

In the comments, Chris said: "Although there is no reason that this recipe can't be adapted for just about any fish, my personal bias would be to use a rich, oily fish. Mackerel, for example, would likely be delicious." so it would probably work well for Kahawai.

The recipe cooks them long enough at 140F to 145F that that should be the approximate internal temperature. You should probably try to keep a fairly low humidity to get the nice bit of drying on the outside

Rory_22257

My main problem is that I will be doing it with a Weber Kettle and the lowest stable temp I can maintain on that thing is around 200F ... hence the "hot smoking"... So I guess I just pull the fillets at 150 F ...?

Brendan_Lee_56950

Throw a pan full of crushed ice on the grill and see if it can help you maintain a lower temp

Rory_22257

I've been down that road before and it didn't really go so well ... Surely someone here has experience hot smoking? $:\$

Chris_Young_80640

@Rory — You can absolutely hot smoke, you're just going to get a different texture. Not necessarily bad. Also, keeping the surface moist while running the smoker as low as possible will help keep the "effective temperature" lower than 200 °F via evaporative cooling.

Rory_22257

Thank you for your comment Chris. I'll give it a go and report back ... only 24 hours left in the brine

Thanks to the others for there comments too. I appreciate the input.

Rory_22257

Right, I'm here to report back with some interesting results!

First off the bat I have to say that this is the best goddam smoked fish I have ever eaten, so my hat comes of to you Chef Steps. I love this site so much

Ok, so starting at square one. This is what I was dealing with. I caught them the other day as there was a bit of a feeding frenzy going on!

I filleted and brined according to the Salmon Pastrami recipe:

Ready for the smoker... note that the thickest part of the thickest fillets is no more than one and a quarter inches thick!

So I smoked them between 195°F and 225°F. The fillets were quite moist to start with. The internal temperature of the fillets increased to 122°F relatively quickly (easily within 2 hours) and then it simply stalled at 130°F for a looooong time! I was shooting for an internal temperature of at least 140°F going from the 'internet literature' (for better or worse). I was quite surprised that despite the smoker temperature peaking at 240°F that it wasn't until the fourth hour that the internal temperature hit 140°F! ... This is quite different to the assumption that @Henri made that "The recipe cooks them long enough at 140F to 145F that that should be the approximate internal temperature"

Needless to say when I pulled them they were nothing short of incredible!

Even the thinner, almost blackened bits were delicious and moist on the inside!

This is how I will do this fish every time now! Thanks again Chef Steps

... However this does leave me with a couple questions I hope you could address @Chris Young :
1. Do I need to hit an internal temperature of 140°F for it to be safe? If not then at what point can I take them out?
2. Why did such a relatively thin (one and a quarter inch MAX, mostly thinner) piece of fish take so long to reach 140°F in a ~220°F environment?

Note that I lightly sprayed the fillets with water at the 1 hour mark only, I didn't do this again after that as I wanted a nice 'skin' to form. Also I'm using a dual-probe Thermoworks K-Type thermocouple so I know my measurements are accurate.

Rory_22257

... The images didn't show up properly

... also how do you tag someone in a post if they have a space in their name?

Brendan_Lee_56950

evaporative cooling causes the dreaded stall, as chris mentioned further up the thread. The more moisture the longer it will maintain those lower temps.

Rory_22257

Yeah I thought that is what was happening ... I always hit that wall when doing a pork butt. I was just very surprised to see such a thin piece of meat stall for so long :S

Brendan_Lee_56950

Well you did moisten the fish during the cooking so I'm sure that helped too.

Rory_22257

So what is a 'safe' temperature to smoke the fish to?

USDA says to cook fish to 145°F but I know that 130°F is commonly accepted as safe. I really don't believe that smoking the fillets at 145°F for 4 hours will

bring them close to that temperature is such a low humidity environment, even if you don't moisten them at all (which I only did once, very lightly).

t.stanoulis

In general, you probably don't want to expose the fish to high enough temperatures for a long enough time to pasteurize. That tends to be deep into the territory of overcooked or mushy. (Caveat: I personally prefer that most fish not be brought above 50C/122F and definitely not held there.

)

Chris_Young_80640

@Rory — The food safety aspect is vastly more complex than the USDA guidance implies. It is possible to pasteurize at temperatures as low as 130 °F if you maintain that temperature for long enough. I would have no qualms about the safety of your fish (they look damn good actually).

Rory_22257

Thanks to all! I can't wait for round two of this. Soooooo delicous