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Sous Vide and Large Pieces of Meat

tonybatty_36486

I'm struggling a little with some of the approaches and timings suggested for large pieces of meat. For instance there was a suggestion to sous vide a bone-in rib joint for 24 hours, yet if I was doing a rib eye steak 1-2 hrs depending on temp and thickness. This doesn't really make sense, for a tender cut of meat like rib-eye, we are only looking at bringing the meat up to serving temp (ignoring any pasteurisation issues). Would anyone consider cooking a rib eye steak for 24hrs? Should we not be cutting the joint into smaller pieces and maximising quality of product being served rather than presentation of a rib joint at the table?

I think there is another issue around more heterogeous large joints such as shoulder of pork and leg of lamb. Wouldn't a better method be to separate the larger muscles out and treat them individually in terms of sous vide, depending on meat type ie tender/tough?

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Johan_Edstrom_5586

Are you sure that you saw 24h? 5-10 depending on the size of the cut I can see, I usually aim at 55C for 5-6h. Presentation wise a large cut is nice.

Brendan_Lee_56950

Maybe you saw the maximum times they recommend placing it in the bath for? That does seem like an awfully long time for something like that unless they were aiming for a specific texture like in the short rib videos on the site.

Chris_Young_80640

@tonybatty – I suspect the 24 hour "rib roast" goes back to the recipe that I worked on with Heston Blumenthal as part of his BBC series "In Search of Perfection" If so, the idea behind the 24 hour cook was to accelerate the activity of some of the enzymes involved in the aging process. In short, we we're looking to see if we could rapidly age the meat to get enhanced tenderness.

Although this approach works, the recipe is a bit problematic because the temperature we used was 52 °C / 125 °F, which is not considered a safe temperature by the FDA. The scientific literature actually supports the idea that this temperature is safe, but the law does not. So I can't entirely recommend it.

But if you do choose to cook your rib roast at 52 °C / 125 °F for 24 hours, you absolutely should presear the meat to reduce the bacteria that will be present on the surface of the meat. You don't have to worry about bacteria inside the meat, because as long as the meat hasn't been cut or punctured, the inside of the meat should be sterile (be aware that some rib roasts are blade tenderized, however). Presearing will also improve the final flavor of the roast.

And this low temperature cooking step does work as advertised. It will accelerate the natural enzymes within the meat (mostly the calpain and cathpepsin enzymes). The long cooking time also breaks down some of the connective collagen in the ribeye.

For Heston's recipe, we finished the roast by cutting the meat into individual steaks, cooking repacking them and cooking them to a temperature to 58 °C / 136 °F before a final searing step.

As for your question about large cuts like shoulders and legs; yes, I often like to seam-bone these cuts into individual muscles that I either cook separately or use Activa ("meat glue") and shape these muscles into a large roast that has the grain all running in the same direction.

Mason_Perry_34060

Interesting. I might have to try a 24 hour roast... Any excuse to eat prime rib or riveted works for me

tonybatty_36486

Chris, thanks for the info on tenderising, I've seen that process mentioned alsewhere and may try it when I'm feeling brave!

The things I was trying to get at was about seam boning large cuts of meat, over-cooking tender cuts and really whether we should be encouraging sous vide cooking for large heterogeneous cuts of meat.

I wouldn't class rib of beef, particularly the fine example in the thread on page 1 of this board as being heterogeneous and having any tough muscles. So if I had a steak cut from that joint I would cook it for an hour say, yet that similar steak, if it was on the outer edges would be held at the same temp for a further 5-6 hours which doesn't really make sense.

There's also a suggestion on the forum to cook a whole leg of lamb for 24hrs, which I would class as mostly tender meat. Whereas that timing would probably be ok for shoulder of lamb.

Mason_Perry_34060

I'm sure where you saw leg of lamb for 24 hours but I don't recall seeing it here. I have seen multiple posts on leg of lamb for 3 hour or less. Or suffer mutton flavor... As for a heterogeneous cut of beef I have cooked prime rib for 4 plus hours with no ill effects, I am not sure what your problem would be with that....

Johan_Edstrom_5586

Second that. Prime rib roast at 4 plus hours is great. You are not going to overcook.

Once you reach a temperature it isn't going any further.

From @Chris post on it.

(3) Note, a full 4-bone rib roast will take at least 6 hours from fridge temperature to core temperature.

Are you sure you aren't confusing the short ribs thread with the rib-roast?

And yes, they come out brilliantly fantastically magically 100 times better than a rib-roast done in the oven.

And at say depending on cut, up to aboutish 6-8 hours you won't see any tissue breakdown that you'll really notice in mouf feel, so what you are suggesting will not happen, heat isn't going about cooking things as in an oven.

Johan_Edstrom_5586

This is what a rib eye roast (Where I did remove the bones because I wanted to make more stock) looks like -

End to end - Pretty spectacular if I may say so

Mason_Perry_34060

What temp 132ishF?

Jack_Mayer_85396

Gawd, that's a beautiful piece of beef! @Johan, how did you do the pre/post sear?

Johan_Edstrom_5586

55C, I think 7h and pre and post seared with a torch.

Jack_Mayer_85396

Thanks. How large was the roast? Potato Pave and some jus?

Johan_Edstrom_5586

I think we were 8 people, it was a while back, yeah - just the pave and a jus.

Mason_Perry_34060

Now I want prime rib!

aaron.c.schroeder

Jack_Mayer_85396

@Aaron - check out the discussion and recipe for "Perfect Prime Rib" on www.seriouseats.com. That's the method we used last night and it was terrific!

Samuel_68313

Just rewatched that episode of ISOP, is it even be worth the 24 hour roasting or do you think it's just better to debone, presear, sous vide, sear?

I say this because I literally just bought a huge piece of Prime Rib on a bit of a whim.

Johan_Edstrom_5586

Debone, then make fantastic stock / a jus with the bones.

tshewman

Have done PR with bone in and boneless via sous vide and then seared and served as steaks. Both were very good, but I prefer the bone-in. Sous vide was only done for 8 hours however (2 bone thickness) at 125F, rest for 45, used bones to make sauce with onions, star anise, veal stock, old cheese butter and coffee beans while searing and resting final 10 minutes (so about 20 minutes to make sauce). Adding bones to sauce added flavor no doubt. You won't go wrong per se either way.

tshewman

Forgot picture. My apologies.

Samuel_68313

Yeah I am definitely going to go the deboned SV route. I think I will pick up a few extra bones from the butchers today and make a decent amount of stock as I am leaning towards making an onion soup in the coming weeks as well.

Beef, Yorkshire Puddings, Roast Potatoes, sous vide kale, and rich gravy. Sounds like a plan.