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grant
Content Development
Check this out and give me feedback, via comments and or this thread.
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Pepijn_31744
Link doesn't seem to work
DiggingDogFarm_65362
The link has gone belly up.
grant
try now.
DiggingDogFarm_65362
Still not working here.
grant
Sorry guys. My team hates it right now so I am getting slack. It will be up soon.
Brandon_Byrd_40557
The URL in the link you posted is "
http://SOUS
VIDE FISH DEVELOPEMENT". I don't know if the actual page is having problems.
Brandon_Byrd_40557
Fixed. Checking out the page now!
tshewman
Salmon Time temps video:
Video-some may not understand the change in color as it represents changes in the tissue. They see how the knife cuts differently and it looks different and wonder what are the portions that are whiter etc.
Butchery Salmon:
Leave as is:
Gavin's turbot video seems a bit rushed. :-)
Remainder looks good!
Huy_63293
Sorry about this guys. We're working on a fix for this.
cammarata.nick
Sorry about the link not working before everyone, that was my fault. It should be fixed now.
HammeredChef_DEFINITELY_does_NOT_work_at_22134
link for me (Mac Yosemite) has to be opened with a copy and paste.
I think we might have a better idea on the salmon video if you cut it skin side down. It appears that the pressure needed to get through the skin might not show the true texture.
I like the style of the short video and simple straight-forward content. This allows us to see and learn more if videos like this are coming out several times a week.
cammarata.nick
fixed, thanks!
HammeredChef_DEFINITELY_does_NOT_work_at_22134
its working for me now
FrankM_3301
The high quality, well produced videos and still pictures are a critical component of your site aesthetic...an important part of your product, not to mention the detail that is communicated. I appreciate and enjoy that aspect of this site and your work very much. However, I can understand the time and energy that takes and how it might limit your capacity for consistently sharing what you are learning on a daily basis....which means we don't get a steady stream of the results of your work...I learned a lot, and would refer back to a post like this frequently. I, for one, would not mind regular posts that are information driven...without the "bells and whistles"...while I am waiting for some of your more well-crafted pieces to emerge from the production room.
douglas_bd
HI Grant, Thanks for sharing! I really like the 'tasting notes' format for each temp of the different fish species. It's very helpful to hear what was kitchen favorite, vs. crowd favorite, vs just gross. The grid pics are ok, though not all that easy to differentiate between close temp data points. I felt like they showed a general progression better than the specific result of each temp. I liked the cooked salmon video but found the transition from seared to unseared fish somewhat jarring. Once I figured out what was going on, it was fine, but it took a few viewings and I'm not sure the shot of the seared piece added much to the overall effect. I did like the shot of the knife cutting each cooked piece to demonstrate the texture. I missed the chef's tasting notes on the salmon though.
This is definitely a different presentation style than the typical ChefSteps information - more raw data than analytical report. As a voracious consumer of all ChefSteps content, I appreciate it, but I don't know that it would play well with more casual visitors to the site. I'd like to see more of it, but I think you'd need to differentiate it somehow from the more polished content. For those of us that care to dig in though, I think a ~'daily' ChefSteps testing/experiments update would be extremely informative.
ajcampelli
In general, I like the idea of more content with less frills as a supplement to the higher-quality content.
Here are my thoughts about the specific examples:
The most useful information was in the text/table accompanying the tuna, snapper, cod, and turbot.
I do not think the quality of the tuna, snapper, cod, and turbot photos is the issue. Even if they were more polished, they wouldn't tell the story given the perspective from which the photos were taken. Maybe the answer is the same quality photos, but more of them, or at different angles/perspectives, etc.
Personally, I did not get enough out of the salmon time-temp video to justify "a lot more work," as you describe it. That being said, I have a different view about the short rib time/temp videos, which I think are extremely useful and provide much more insight into the different textures than a simple text description or still photo.
Hope that helps.
grandpa.yum
beautiful pictures and videos are certainly wonderful but I don't come here for that. The recipes and information are what I'm after and if it means more content can come out then by all means. There's nothing wrong with the pictures and videos in the article linked and they get the point across in a great example of why this site is so excellent: solid information for home cooks that want to do some next level shit. I can go to douglas baldwin or any of a million blogs and find descriptions of texture of sous vide fish but most of those places simply don't have the resources or time to cook 6+ pieces of each fish and take comparison shots and videos.
Paid course or something is a bit different; I view that akin to a cookbook where I'm throwing down real cash and expect a more polished product. That being said, why burn yourself out on the free stuff? If it's just a fancy shot of the end result to do the recipe justice I totally understand but I think it's fine to skimp a bit on the guts
Huy_63293
It's a good thing Douglas Baldwin works for us! We want ChefSteps to be a resource for all these things. Descriptions of textures, science, a recipes for cooking and inspiration, you name it.
Patrik_Racz_19800
i think what chefsteps always lacked was engaging the community. i remember the recipe comes out on tuesday, and its just silent till the next recipe, so i think thats the thing you need to work on with regular updates on whats going on. i would love the daily updates, but i think what most of the people love about this site next to all the techniques you learn is the high quality videos and pictures. what i also think is a good idea, is if you post some of your failures with description of what went wrong, why did it not work, with possible solutions as i think you learn the most from the failures you make. but overall this new format of daily updates would be awesome, because it would teach us how you guys think and not just how you cook a recipe.
grant
You are so right.
grant
Thanks for your thoughts. You will see a lot more of the kitchen in the forum.
grant
Agree with the separate forms of content. I think this content needs to live on the forum.
grant
So, overall, salmon style video for more textures? Short ribs style videos? Or Stills and notes. Or any combination?
sebastian_palmigiani_21610
i don't like the scrolling down the page to get the info on the various fish. it's a rather long page. how about a link menu one one side of the page with the fish names that would take you directly to the fish you are interested int without any scrolling? also, you have the temp but how about recommendations on general time?
HammeredChef_DEFINITELY_does_NOT_work_at_22134
I may be the wrong one to ask😁 . I can't get enough new knowledge, so I will take any and all combinations. I spend 15 to 20 hours a week on your site ( I actuallt tracked
Patrik_Racz_19800
how about creating a new button for it on the main site? you could call it experiments or daily updates, so people would know its not the regular stuff, but some extra things? and if you do it on the forum, please create a new category for it just to keep it organized.
Manfred_18311
I‘m still
amazed with the Egg calculator; If you could use the same format instead of
stills it would be just perfect.
pepealberola
Link is not working for me. Safari 7.1 or Chrome. OSX 10.9.5...
mike.minasian
Still not able to get to the link.... I commented on it originally, but now it's broken
tarrosion
Likewise, currently 404 for me
coryhansen78
Others have said a lot (if not all) of this, but my ~2 cents:
I think there's room for both the high quality, gorgeous photos/videos (especially for paid classes) and the (more periodic/daily?!) unpolished R&D type of stuff. I find the latter just as valuable, generally speaking. The forum would be a fine place for this, as long as it is relatively easy to find (and return to later)-- maybe a new forum category would be created?. The "geekery" section of the classes might be a good fit too for some things...
For what it's worth, I really enjoyed the vegetable demi and brioche bun (these are awesome, BTW) development series. That sort of thing gives me a window into the thought process of professionals and really helps me learn and avoid mistakes/experiments that go nowhere.
Thoughts on the particular post:
To me, the fish photos aren't bad/sucky/what have you, they just look that way compared to some of the other content elsewhere on the site. I actually liked them (viewed as a continuum), but thought a list/grid/table would probably suffice (I do like reading, though).
I thought the salmon butchery video was great!! More of these with various proteins would be nice. The turbo turbot video was cool, but not really helpful at that speed.
The flat fish/round thing was cool too (not essential of course, but I do like trivia like this peppered-in).
TL:DR version: I really like this site - great content that is visually striking. Adding frequent unpolished/raw updates/kitchen goings-on only sweetens the deal, and to me, rounds-out the user experience.
Matthew_Snyder_68770
I'm getting ye olde 404 error for the link.
T__2156
and gone again. I've seen it once but wanted to refer before commenting.
Brendan_Lee_56950
I like the idea. The execution could use a bit refining but I generally think this type of material will help engage the team and community more.
I think there should be a common template for presenting this type of time/temp testing. Something that we can use in the recipe creation section as well.
Just visually, I think the time and temp should be big and bold and then there should be a picture of the cooked cut and then a description of the texture following that. The pictures don't need to be pro quality, just enough to show the color and texture when cut.
One possible way to display this would be a simple photo grid where each photo could be clicked and a "modal" type window would show the time/temp/textural description for each.
Przemyslaw_93807
<thumbs up> agree!
jason.r.whitworth
Link is currently down. Would love to check this out.
Greg_Honeycutt_83826
it's still not working for me, but I'm finding the comments rather informative.
cammarata.nick
hmm, it works for me and i can't get it to not work. What happens when you click it? Nothing?
Seth_Ratner_91225
I agree with you because I think the "making of" material is best shared in the group setting, rather than as a presentation (as the recipes and classes are). It should encourage a back-and-forth that could improve the end-dish, but more importantly. create a more dedicated membership that feels they played some role in the development of new content, even if that role was a simple "looks better in the second picture" or "needs more cowbell."
Patrik_Racz_19800
the link just disappeared from this post, but before it said theres nothing here, , looked like the fish temp site got deleted, actually it still does
Patrik_Racz_19800
alright the link is back, but when i click on it it says , whoa theres something missing
Huy_63293
The link should be working now. Sorry about that!
Huy_63293
Hey Matthew, its fixed now.
Huy_63293
Fixed!
Greg_Honeycutt_83826
I got a 404 earlier, but working now. Thanks
Greg_Honeycutt_83826
ok...now that I've gone over all of it. I do agree, there is some lack of engagement from the chef on the forum, but honestly, I'm fine with that. I like to see what your team finds best, but I also like what was not liked, and especially why, on both counts. I enjoy chatting about techniques I've not tried (that's a lot), but I trust you can't stop cooking to scroll through a few hundred comments either. More info on the why and why not, and the results thereof, and I'm happy, though I was happy before.
borgech
I trust the team at Chef Steps, period. You've published enough recipes that I've followed that have worked perfectly, that I just trust you guys outright. Therefore, the most useful information for me in this content was the notes about the temperature. When I buy something to cook, I want to know what time/temp works well. Pics and video are great and pretty, but the most useful thing here for me is your notes on various temperatures. I would like to see some information about how long you've cooked the protein for (I know this depends on thickness many times, but a ballpark would be cool), but the photos of the various temps and your descriptions of how you liked them and how they 'ate', I loved and look forward to using.
One other comment, and I know this has come up before, but I just want to reiterate: I would love if the discussions at the end of the recipe and the forum were somehow integrated. It is really difficult to follow both discussions, and there is valuable information in both places; is there anyway to integrate them?
Matthew_Snyder_68770
Okay, I very much dig that. I sort of see that fish time/temp comparison as a kind of infographic, minus the graphic part. This sort of stuff is tremendously useful; not all home cooks have the means to run their own in depth tests like this, so having a repository for that information in invaluable.
That kind of information doesn't have to be presented in a whiz-bang fashion to be useful. But, at the same time, let's not kid ourselves.... ChefSteps is
really
good at the whiz-bang stuff, to the point that I wouldn't be surprised if most casual users actually see that highly polished delivery as the identity of the site, rather than the information that's being conveyed. (That's a hunch, I have absolutely nothing empirical on which to base that opinion) I mean, we all love food porn. Nothing wrong with that. But in the context of an instructional website, toning it down a notch every now and then isn't a bad thing at all.
Johan_Edstrom_5586
Late to the thread, this is outstanding.
I watched the salmon video a few times, the albumin development is
really interesting, I love the taste-note charts.
This tells me much more than some of the other stuff, to me something like this
becomes the "unit-test" output for designing an API (Yes, that sounds really weird).
These pages like the egg/steak charts I'd certainly bookmark, go back and reference, then
copy for things I do myself. More of this on the forum since it also shows the thought process
and how you iterate on the design of a dish.
theultravisitor
First I want to say that if this is a preview of what to expect when the sous vide course is released, then I'm very excited.
As far as the quality of the videos and photos are concerned, I agree with those who have said that the quality of the instruction is more important than the quality of the photos. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate beautiful food photography as much as the next person. But that's not what I come here for. As long as the photos help reinforce the instruction then I feel they have served their purpose.
Overall, I really like the idea behind the photos of the fish at different temperatures alongside the tasting notes, highlighting those temperatures that are the favorites. This is invaluable information. As an amateur with limited time (and funds) I’m grateful to see all the hard work has been done for me. It’s almost like you guys are my personal test kitchen and I get to use the results of your experimentation to make better food. I’m really interested to see such a format with other proteins and maybe even vegetables.
As far as the salmon video with the different temperatures is concerned, I didn't care that much for the white background. It felt a little cold. Beyond a futuristic aesthetic, I really don’t see what it added to my education. I’m just as content seeing the same thing on one of your chopping blocks.
One thing I really liked is the section where you give suggestions as to what to do with each part of the fish once its been butchered. Maybe this feature has always been there and I’m just now noticing. Whatever the case may be, this is something I'd like to see continued not only as part of the sous vide course, but perhaps in other courses as well, where appropriate.
(Speaking of braised salmon collar, perhaps this is an idea for the future pressure cooking course? I've heard conflicting views on to whether or not fish can be cooked using a pressure cooker.)
GaryT_92514
This is great content. I would like to read about the development process, even when it may not definitive and glossy - it is a window into the chefstep team's thought process. Some great ideas would surface. I'm sure it would be a catalyst for sparking up the chef step community too, on a less didactic level. But don't stop making your stunning videos either, they are unique and much appreciated, paid or otherwise.
tarrosion
Thoughts in order:
- The salmon temps video is nice, definitely better than the other fish still pictures. The still pictures don't really give you a sense for some of the fish, e.g. look at black cod, those all look the same. The video gives by far the best sense of what each temperature is like.
- Second to the video is the written description. In fact, ideally we get both the short written description (along with "our favorite is 43c") and the video.
- The style of the video doesn't need to be so fancy. Reflective background, etc. Cutting board is fine. Not that the fanciness is bad, it's nice, just not sure it's worth any significant time or money investment.
- It's odd that in the video the salmon is cut with a knife since ideally we cut/eat cooked salmon with a fork. I think cutting with a fork would give an even better impression of what the end result is like.
- At 4-5 seconds into the video we see a still of salmon with the words "salmon raw" but the salmon doesn't look raw (compare to the raw salmon in the next cut).
- The video of Gavin cutting the turbot isn't useful since it's sped up comically. If it were in real time, it would be useful. A big benefit of ChefSteps compared to other resources is that by watching good chefs do something you're trying to do, you pick up on lots of little things that no written recipe can contain.
General comments not about the fish temp stuff:
- I come to CS for (in order) a) reputable recipes and information, especially using more modern techniques but not in a ridiculous way b) discussion, ability to ask questions to the community and get good answers. CS community stands above others because people are interested in science and open to modern techniques but not gimmicky about it. c) inspiration, new ideas. d) pretty videos, funky music, general aesthetics.
- So I don't mind if the pictures aren't as beautiful if it means more quantity, but I do mind if it means they contain less information.
- If I were king, I'd have two sections: "gallery" and "all updates." The gallery would contain only the fancy polished stuff, and the all updates section would contain that but also quick one offs. E.g. "hey guys today I was cooking some lamb sous vide, here are some quick pictures showing comparisons between temps."
msymond
The consultative approach ChefSteps takes is impressive. Being greedy, I would like both. I enjoy watching the beautifully made videos, with high production values, and find them a really useful learning aide. But fundamentally, I believe, what is great about ChefSteps is the sound techniques and ideas, based on rigorous testing and experience. This allows home cooks to be good cooks, not recipe-followers. A daily (or near-daily) dose of this would be awesome -- any time ChefSteps releases new content is exciting, making that more frequent would be great.
lfmichaud
For some feedback on a completely unrelated subject. I see a second page on the comments (53 comments) but when I click on it it's empty with no additional comments. ( Chrome 37.0.2062.124 on Windows 7)
Savage_Craic_11929
Have 'liked' several suggestions and will echo them here.
The classes are incredible and the level of attention should never waver there, I think everyone agrees with that. However, even with that said, I generally refer back to the text and photos after an initial watch (the videos then end up more useful for social media sharing). So a combination of stills, video, and your wonderful text is great for the classes.
As for more intimate, work in progress, notes from the kitchen kind of work, I would be happy to engage it in whatever form it takes. Those types of insights are incredibly valuable. Glimpses of your kitchen's processes definitely deserve its own outlet in the community. For organization, i agree it would be good if they could be grouped together and have a dedicated link in the navigation menu (perhaps just a dedicated tag that’s linked to). As long as your eloquent descriptions are part of the equation it will provide even more "tools that help make you a smarter, more confident cook".
Thank you for all the work y'all put into this.... absolutely brilliant resource.
Alexander_50293
I would especially like to see some of the failures, to compare or to see what not to do.
andre.natera
Go back to doing amazing food and educating us on things we can't get from a basic cookbook or food network show. I've been following you all since modernist cuisine and showed all my industry friends all the great things you were teaching. Now we get potato salad, chicken and broccoli sauce. I rarely am interested in what you are doing any more. Lost it's forward thinking and now seems to be geared towards moms and food network meatheads. Sorry I know all of your talent and pedigree but just a little disappointed. In no way am I questioning your abilities just questioning if you remember why you started? Remember to dance with the girl you came with.
Matthew_Snyder_68770
The ChefSteps team has not dumbed anything down. At all. There is a tangible utility to the newer stuff; what good is it to have a website for avid cooks looking to expand their repertoire if there is no realistic way for people to put those lessons into practice in their own kitchens? There are many professional chefs in this community, but by and large ChefSteps is about empowering the home cook. I don't know what you do for a living, but I have a day job that leaves me with approximately 45-60 minutes every night to put a meal on the table. I don’t always like spending my entire Sunday prepping and cooking meals for the week, so I welcome recipes that are pared down and can go zero to sixty in that weeknight window. Sometimes I just want chicken and potatoes. There’s no fault in that. YMMV.
I'm glad I know how to make sphericumated (real word) beets and mangoes that look like quail eggs.... but that knowledge really serves me no good five nights a week. Save the fun and adventurous stuff for weekends and dinner parties with friends. But the real benefit, the payoff of what this site offers, is the ability to make a delicious meal every time I go into the kitchen. To that end, does it really make sense for the site to cater its content and lessons to just those couple meals a month its users are cooking with fewer time constraints, as opposed to the 15-20 other times a month we step into our kitchens after work? There is a reason why the team at Modernist Cuisine came out with a home edition, after all.
Bear something else in mind: This is a growing community. I've been around for coming up on two years now, and there are so many new names I see on the forum, it’s fantastic. That means the raw number of cooks – of varying skill levels – is expanding. If there isn't content that’s approachable for ‘entry level’ cooks, what possible chance does the site have in keeping that user engaged and interested in exploring the more challenging recipes and techniques? That has been the one consistent comment I get when I shill for the site (on Facebook or other online communities); people go and check it out and become intimidated. The goal, as I see it, is to not cater to those of a higher skill level, but to remove the intimidation factor.
There’s no denying that the core ethos of ChefSteps is super modernist quasi-avant garde cuisine. And that’s still at the heart of what they are doing, even in the more simple recipes.
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