Pho..

The new recipe posted got me thinking.. As 'pho' is such an iconic dish and being a vietnamese, I usually have very high level expectation of how my bowl of pho should taste. I commend CS and A. Nguyen for getting the idea out there that you can turn some left over into something awesome and tasty in no time. It totally support my philosophy of no waste and pushing the envelope to experience with food to discover new flavour profile.

Now with that said, some aspect of that recipe goes way beyond what should be added to a 'traditional pho' recipe but perhaps pho is now just a word to describe a bowl of clear broth with some rice noodle and proteins. I do love the idea and how the community can benefit from it but I must admit, it left a little 'sour taste' in me just having it qualify as 'pho'. At the very least, it was not called traditional pho..

So my question to you: when you have an iconic dish from any given country, at what point do you feel comfortable or somehow draw the line calling it with the original name knowing for fact that you have changed completely it flavour profile by adding different ingredients? It is a somehow a loaded question because as a CS community, we also strive to think outside the box and fully encourage a modernist way of cooking. Thoughts?

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naithaddi

As a frenchman, i can tell you that i draw the line. pretty quick. ;-)

In France we say "comme" ou "revisité" for instance that recipe would have been called "Soup asiatique de dinde comme une Pho" "Turkey noodle soup like a pho". I had the problem a while back when CS called what was a pistachio mayonnaise an Aioli, when in fact an ailoli is a garlic mayonnaise (it's in the name AILoli) but it's ok, if the dish is good. that said, i wouldn't serve it to Vietnamese friend and call it a Pho. ;-)

pd3ski_278514

Totally get you on that point and would add is a roast that is jouled a roast? I know it's a cut but the term bugs me. Afaik it's the only cut that implies a cooking method.. isn't it?

Absolutely no disrespect to Johan as he posted an absolutely beautiful hunk o meat down below!

I make clam chowder. I'm originally from mass now I make what I consider to be New England clam chowdah in Washington where I live now but with razor clams.... New England? I don't know but I see the same thing in every travel/chef type show out there.... the constant theme of continuous change based on ingredient/immigration metrics.

Nicolas, that aioli thing drives me batshit! Gah!(not aimed at cs!) And you make a great point about "revisite"! That's a great way to do it. It protects the traditional while bringing in the new.

Anyway, good post Minh!

Oops had to edit

fisher23

Or call it faux Phō, lol. I have the same problem every time I eat Thai food. It's not authentic Thai, it's Thai style at best in most US Thai restaurants. I even have to compromise because I can't get all the ingredients that would make what I call authentic. Recipes and techniques are even different from house to house and region to region. But with that said, I think that is the way it is with almost all cuisine. It doesn't mean it's not good, just not what we think of as authentic.

Minh, I would love to have your recipe for Phō.

pd3ski_278514

Yes! I believe that it could only be authentic is if you are in country making it with the ingredients on hand.... but with that comes the problem, as you state "house to house" and as we live in a more "scaled up processing" society we lose those things that were "authentic" to our younger tongues, add a new jar of this or that through generations, like a game of telephone. Even within our super processed industrial food pump things that tasted authentic to me as a child are completely different now.... do Planters dry roasted peanuts taste the same... nope ... are Pepperidge Farm fish crackers authentic to my taste in the 60's as a child ... nope!

I think the only authentic is to be where you are cook to the recipe as best you can with local ingredients and enjoy because authentic is fleeting, it's an illusion but we can try. And I have total respect for those producers on any continent that continue to be committed to time honored traditions for continuities sake!

Brandon_Byrd_40557

Pho isn't just one iconic dish, but a family of soups that range significantly with respect to their contents. I'm not sure what aspect (or aspects) of the recipe "goes way beyond what should be added to a 'traditional' pho recipe." Turkey, certainly. But that's the point. Apart from that, and perhaps the cabbage in the broth, I don't see much in this recipe that separates it from pho ga. Certainly nothing that would make me want to call The Tradition Police to have anyone prosecuted for appropriation.

Minh_Huynh_48807

aahhhh.. please don't get me wrong here. I am just trying to initiate some discussion here. No Tradition Police required here. Like anything, we evolve and same goes for anything else. There is and will always be a push to do better and push the limit. It is great and as a person that embrace modernist cuisine, I am all for it.

Perhaps the question is more about traditional vs new way. I like the quite from @pd3ski: 'It protects the traditional while bringing in the new'. So maybe we should start by defining traditional vs authentic from followup comments from others. But to answer your question re: recipe aspect.. carrots, celery and cabbage might be 'acceptable' as it is what we can get easily locally but apples?... That is where I 'grinched' a little.

jeffreybkim

I totally get where you're coming from. For me, words like traditional and authentic mean very little because they're so nonspecific. Authenticity differs significantly, even in a single country with geographic differences in food, and this goes the same with traditional, in my opinion. Furthermore, although tradition is important to culture, we would be no where without innovation and change. That's why I think it is important and encouraged to diverge a bit, while still maintaining respects to tradition of course. For instance, tomatoes and garlic may seem traditional ingredients to many Italians today, but those are both New World ingredients and were not used in Italian cooking until recently. I like observing the evolution of food. I find it interesting. I just think maintaining respect of the past is also important.

And at the end of the day, if a bowl of Pho or whatever it's called is put in front of me, and I find it delicious, wholesome, and provided with hospitality and generosity, I don't care at all what you call it. I'm just gonna express my sincere gratitude and consume it to the very last drop with a smile on my face. Traditional or authentic, is beside the point.

49nnrgrl_407674

Most enlightening and enjoyable thread.

pd3ski_278514

Gawd..... I wish someone would argue with us... ;-)