Make a Countertop Combi

ChefSteps pivoted their model away from education and toward being a "smart kitchen tool" company. It's an interesting strategy. Instead of getting people to cook smarter by learning more, they chose instead to make smart devices to sell to dumb people. And Joule is about the smartest kitchen device I've ever seen. I love Joule. Kudos to CS on Joule. It is exquisite. It's one of the most interesting attempts to democratize knowledge I've seen.

Now they should do it again. And do it with combi ovens. Cuisinart makes a tiny countertop steam oven that won't take a 1/4 sheet pan. The Breville Smart Oven is the right size, but it doesn't do steam. And there's pretty much nothing else for consumers out there. ANOVA were supposed to be working on a countertop precision steam oven.... but who knows what happened to it.

If ChefSteps is going to give up making content, they should get on making a countertop combi oven. It's the last thing we're really waiting on. Polyscience and Philip Preston were the first to bring circulators down from on high... Dave has brought us the kitchen centrifuge. Chris and Grant and company brought us the circulator 2.0 with the Joule. Now bring the Combi Oven down from Mt. Olympus and give it to the people.

I don't know what else they're doing over there at CS HQ, but it might as well be this. CS seems like a smart product company that's spinning its wheels instead of delivering what's next. What's next? A countertop combi. Who makes it? I don't know. It might as well be ChefSteps. I'm so tired of waiting.

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Comments

dancurren

I would certainly been interested in such a product but I think and easier product to make and likely to have higher demand would be to make a Joule-esque version of the Brievlle/Polysci Control Freak. I have wanted a precision portable induction burners for years and while the control freak is great, at $2k it's ripe to be made much more affordable.

Brandon_Byrd_40557

That would be nice, I agree. There are already a few companies (like Hestan) that are making steps in that direction. My main thought is that, at least for my purposes, having a combi-oven that can control temperature and humidity reasonably well would be much more valuable to my kitchen than having something like a Control Freak. Maybe I'm wrong about that. But a "sous vide" level of control over temperature seems most useful in a hot box like an oven, not on an induction "burner" or in a pan. Of course, anywhere we can get extra control is welcome. I certainly love the control I get from my Vollrath Mirage Pro (thanks to CS and Doug Baldwin for the recommendation).
I'd be sure to buy a "ChefSteps Joule" version of the Control Freak, if they somehow managed to make something with similar functionality for 1/5th the price. But while the Control Freak is indeed expensive, it's nothing compared to the ticket price of a proper combi oven. If there was a countertop combi that cost as much as the Control Freak, I may well have bought one already. But that hasn't happened yet... and a reasonably priced, consumer combi certainly hasn't happened yet.

robert.c.brown15

"Instead of getting people to cook smarter by learning more, they chose instead to make smart devices to sell to dumb people."

Yep. That is exactly it. Exactly.

Brandon_Byrd_40557

If that's the game they're going to play, they should play it.

whenric

Agree. Tho I do love my cuisinart CSO-300! I am continually surprised that it doesn't get more press.

Brandon_Byrd_40557

I really want one, but not until they make it bigger. And people have been telling them to do that with the CSO ever since it launched, but they just don't hear the people.

Michael_Tranchina_988010

I am new to Chefsteps...From your comment above, is it safe to assume that the company started out as strictly an education company (no tools, just educational content) but pivoted as you say to a smart kitchen tool company? Or, did they start off with the Joule product, and just shifted their messaging?

As an engineer and home cook, I have longed for precise temperature controlled kitchen tools...I love your suggestion above...Like Joule, it would really take the guesswork out of cooking food for amateurs...

Brandon_Byrd_40557

Welcome Michael! Your assumption is exactly correct. At least, I think it is... ChefSteps originally launched as an online cooking school and learning community with the motto "Cook Connected!". They were founded by alums of the Modernist Cuisine team that was also headquartered there in Seattle. ChefSteps was originally powered by corporate sponsors like Polyscience and Waring, as well as seed capital from eccentric billionaires. And with that kind of pedigree and startup, they quickly created the best resource for sous vide cooking ANYWHERE, and produced the best food-related educational content I have ever seen. They manged to somehow out-Modernist-Cuisine Modernist Cuisine. And that's no mean feat, let me tell you. ChefSteps' videos are great, but the written content of the recipes is also phenomenal. I laugh and I learn all the time from reading their recipes. When is the last time that happened to you outside of ChefSteps? For this awesome educational work, they were honored with a James Beard Award. And I shall revere them as heroes and ballers always.

Unfortunately, all that teaching doesn't really pay the bills. But they had a *lot* of very smart people on their team, and they got together and reimagined the immersion circulator. That's what Joule is. Joule is the best circulator I've ever seen from a design standpoint. It is a technical marvel, and it is not at all like the other units on the block. They knocked it out of the park with Joule, and I can't even begin to imagine the kind of logistical and legal and technical hurdles they had to overcome to bring that product to market. But when they brought their awesome product to market, they shut down the school. Well, they didn't shut it down exactly. They froze it in time. And they decided to try to put the school inside of Joule.

Not everyone has been happy with this strategy. But it is understandable. I am a teacher, and I know the struggle that educators can face when it comes to putting food on the table. That's why I'm not too mad about their saucy bags, even though I like to poke fun at them. At any rate, that's a quick history of ChefSteps according to Brandon Byrd. I've been around a while. Some have been here longer. But most of the old heads aren't around anymore. You used to be able to ask questions on the forum and have the world's leading experts on modernist cuisine, food safety, and all-around-wesomeness tell you whatever you wanted to know. Or at least point you to the literature so you could try to figure it out yourself. THAT is what ChefSteps used to be like. That is why I wanted them to bring back Riley. But they gave all that up to make products, which is fine. They make a quality product. But if that's the game they're playing.... make a freaking combi oven. Please!

Michael_Wolf_405745

I've heard from Anova that their oven is still in the works. Still, it's almost two years late, so don't hold your breath.

Brandon_Byrd_40557

One strategy to try to get one to market would be to go "in the back door," so to speak, and try to get someone like Philip Preston of Polyscience to convince Breville that they need to do a steam edition of their Smart Oven as a superior alternative to the Cuisinart.

Brandon_Byrd_40557

Sharp has released a countertop steam oven, apparently with some of the drawbacks of the CSO. There's a thread discussing its virtues and drawbacks over at eGullet. Everyone over there has been waiting for a proper home steam oven for quite some time, and my remarks on this forum were inspired by community experiences shared over at EG. At any rate, someone needs to do this the right way. Or one of the right ways. Because the industry is doing it wrong.

Gfweb_29510

Completely agree. I have the CSO and what it lacks is oven space. Big limitation.

A second paradoxical issue is that because the oven is air-tight to hold in steam there is no truly non-steam setting. Even if the steam is "off" moisture from the food steamifies the chamber. As a result , wet food...eg a tray of cauliflower, steams itself and doesn't crisp up right.

Brandon_Byrd_40557

Good to see you! Combi ovens are all about moisture management, and that is a major problem with the CSO. One place where it might be possible to compromise is on the amount of humidity control. 100% steam is important; getting it close to 0% is important. I don't know if there's an optimal middle zone for some things, as it's been years since I last read through MC. But I don't know that "fine grained" control of humidity is that desirable. I either want the oven to steam the food, or for it to be a dry, hot cooking environment. "Sealing in the juices" with a gasket and not having a mechanism to reduce the humidity inside does seem like a good way to steamify moist product that you're trying to roast.

Richard_Schwaninger__1013495

Sorry to chime in so late. I just started reading the forum. So, I appologize up front if I'm going over something that's already been gone over too much.

There's a somewhat new steam oven on the market and sold on Amazon. AUG steam grill oven. It works ok, it's a toaster oven with steam and a convection mode. Alas, no steam convection.

A bit of investigating and tinkering showed a path to gain the steam with convection. No top heat, no bottom heat, just convection heat with steam.

Seams to work, I'm just starting to experiment with the oven modified to provide a Combi function.

Brandon_Byrd_40557

Welcome to the forum! Anova recently announced that they're bringing a countertop steam oven to market. This was in the works a while ago, but work on it seemed to stop after they got bought out by Electrolux. Details are scant, but it looks like a contender. Looks kind of small though.

Richard_Schwaninger__1013495

Thanks, I remember reading about the Anova, I would have thought it would be similar to, or a home version of the Electrolux Ditto Libero Combi Oven. What I see in current offerings is that they are not convection and steam at the same time, i.e. Combi mode.

The other thing I see is that they are all small. At least a quarter size sheet would be a good size.

Richard

adey73

so what are your thoughts on the anova precision oven, Brandon?

38Litres, 1 Gallon reservoir... no pricing or delivery yet.

adey73

...that's really worth pointing out about this forum, when it was organised it was incredible. Now everything disappears and threads half remembered can't be tracked down; It's like Alzheimer's

Brandon_Byrd_40557

I'm excited that it's coming to market. So far, it looks very, very promising. I'm curious to see what the pricepoint will be in the end. And, of course, to hear some real-world user feedback. But it seems to be the upgrade to the Cuisinart that I was wanting -- bigger capacity, bigger reservoir, steam recapture, and more overall control. The app seems helpful too. I do wish it could get hotter, but going much above 450F seems potentially problematic for small ovens (which would be more likely to burn or scorch things). Even so, it looks to be potentially revolutionary. If I baked more bread, I'd be itching to preorder immediately.

Lorin_Chak_775471

I'm really late and I thought CS would surely have a combi oven but they don't?? Anova has the Precision Oven and they aren't competing here? I don't want to switch loyalties now, I'm sure CS could make a better and larger sized combi oven than Anova...