Reasonably Priced Setup; Soup to nuts

So I'm stepping up from the Dorkfood DSV and ziploc bags and was hoping someone could recommend a reasonably priced setup.

I'm getting one of the $200 circulators (not discussing here) but am also looking for recommendations on a reasonably priced

a) Vacuum sealer or sealing system (For example, there's a Waring sealing "gun" with reusable bags.) Just throw out ideas...trying to keep it under $100 if possible.

- Also, a recommendation on good vacuum sealer rolls instead of individual bags.

b) What size Cambro (or other brand) container to grab

c) Maybe a torch...

d) Any other tools you think might be useful.

Just keep in mind my original set-up was ziploc bags, a DSV, and a crockpot.

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Comments

Brandon_Byrd_40557

I stepped up from the DSV to a Polyscience circulator about a year ago. Here are my suggestions:

As far as sealers are concerned I'd stay away from sealers that use a port and a gun and opt for an edge sealer. The port/gun models can leak over long cooking times, both through the port and through the zip-top of the bag. On an edge sealer, you'll want something that has an instant seal button and perhaps a pulse function so that you can ensure that liquid doesn't get sucked up into the pump or ruin your seal. I have a cheap Foodsaver - the cheapest on the market - and wish I'd spent a bit more to get one with more features. When using this particular model to seal watery veg like squash, zucchini, or thinly sliced onions, the pump will pull moisture out of the plants and it's almost impossible to get it to seal. Having an instant seal button and a pulse function to control the vacuum would solve this problem and greatly expand the capabilities of the sealer. If I had to buy a new edge sealer for around $100, I'd go for the Polyscience 150; it has all the functions you'd want and doesn't cost more than it should.

For the container, I use a Cambro 12189CW13 . I ordered a lid for it and cut a space to fit the circulator (much cheaper than buying a custom pre-fab one). For torches, the Iwatani torch burner seems to be really popular... it's relatively cheap and packs way more power those butane powered brulee torches. The downside of the Iwatani is that it won't work with the upcoming Searzall from Booker and Dax... at least not yet (they're working on ways to make it work so your torch won't tip over with it on). The Searzall is designed to eliminate "torch taste" which, if you've never tasted it, isn't especially appealing. I've had a torch take a beautifully cooked steak and make it taste like Burger King... I've had the same thing happen to pieces of fruit! (!!?!!). If you're going to use a torch somewhat frequently (I keep finding new uses for mine) you might consider investing in a Bernz-o-Matic torch head. I have a TS8000 and it's pretty bad ass.

Aside from these things, the only other thing I can think of that you might want is a probe thermometer and some foam tape so you can monitor the temp of your food while it's in the waterbath. These aren't necessary for all methods of cooking SV, but they allow you to cook with confidence using a bath set at a higher temperature than the final core temp you're wanting (to create a gradient of doneness that can be more pleasing on some proteins than having a completely uniform texture.) These thermometers can also be useful for grilling, smoking, and roasting so they're not just SV unitaskers. Like I said, these aren't strictly speaking necessary... I've been doing fine without one, but I've got one on my Amazon wishlist!

Jack_Mayer_85396

@Lou -I got my cambro container and lid with a pre-cut hole for the circulator right here at the ChefSteps store. I got my SansAire circulator and am going to fire it up tomorrow. The lid and container I got here will definitely work with the SansAire. I'll second the recommendation for the Bernz-o-Matic torch too. I have a Searz-All coming from Kickstarter in a few months. I also agree with the idea of an edge sealer if the budget won't accomodate a chamber sealer. If the budget will allow for it, the idea of the probe thermometer has merit as well. HTH

Brendan_Lee_56950

Honestly, I would forgo any type of edge or port sealer in favor of ziploc's and just keep stashing money away for a chamber if you plan on taking sous vide cooking seriously. I estimate over the years, even pre-sous vide cooking in my kitchen, i've spent $400-500 on foodsavers and bags and attachments, etc, with nothing really to show for it. The chamber, however, has really been a game changer and can be had for as little as $650.

DiggingDogFarm_65362

Webstaurantstore.com has the VacMaster VP112 for just $549 with free shipping.

Brendan_Lee_56950

that's a great deal. I got mine for almost $100 more

Lou_34544

Thanks for the recommendations, all. I fiend for a chamber sealer, but I think that will come in the future when I have a little more money and a little more room for it.

I wasn't aware Polyscience was making sealers now. The 150 looks like a great option. Does anyone use vacuum sealer bag rolls?

Also, I didn't see a pre-cut cambro lid in the shop? Maybe out of stock?

Jack_Mayer_85396

@Lou - you're right the cambro tubs and lids are gone from the store and so are the PolyScience Circulators! I wonder what gives? @Edward, any explanation? Thanks

Edward_33547

@Jack and @Lou - After a bit of reflection, we have decided to focus on our digital classes, deprioritizing the webstore. So slowly we are moving to affiliate programs with our equipment vendors.

You can still find our preferred sous vide products in our Sous Vide Collection (http://www.chefsteps.com/sous-vide-collection) under "Shop". These "Buy" links will take you to our partners' websites to complete your purchase. After clicking one of these links, ChefSteps will benefit from anything that you purchase. Note that on the partner's website (like PS) the accessories are just below the main unit.

If you ever have questions or issues, we will always be here to support you. Keep the questions coming!

Best,

Edward

Jack_Mayer_85396

Hi @Ed, thanks for the explanation.

Johan_Edstrom_5586

I'll just arrogantly (awaiting commentary) put this on the thread -

Get 1 or 2 circulators, right now - I'd get the Anovo.

Skip the whole pump, vs edge, vs this and that.

- Buy Ziploc bags until you actually can get a chamber vac.

- I haven't posted it yet, but no - you can't flash pickle and change texture without a

chamber vac, period. - I know you'll argue but you don't have chamber vacs.

- Edge vacs are useless.

- Hybrids are useless.

- Buy a Bernzomatic Mapp torch - I argued with Chris here, there is no argument.

Jack_Mayer_85396

@Johan - I just had the maiden voyage with my SansAire this weekend and am impressed; it worked beautifully and was a dead cinch to operate. Just FWIW. I also agree about the sealer options. I had a Food Saver long before I heard of Sous Vide so it made sense to continue using it. I'm really excited to order my VP-215 tomorrow or Tuesday. What size bags to you recommend? I'm hoping to save on shipping if I order all at once. Also, is it worth it to get the "boilable" bags? I'm going to try to cook, bag and freeze for my elderly father and (at least so far) he's comfortable with the "Stouffers" idea. Thanks!

Johan_Edstrom_5586

I seem to use the 10x12 or 10x13 size the most. It is basically the witdh of the machine and a little extra room for the bag to expand.

I think the regular bags are "boilable" - as long as you don't touch the vessel you are cooking in.

Jack_Mayer_85396

@Johan - much appreciated, thanks! Sorry about the hockey game today ... I hope you didn't have a wager with @Brendan!

Brandon_Byrd_40557

The chamber vac is really the most expensive part of a sous vide setup, and you can get away without one. But you'll always want one until you do. I don't agree with the "use Ziplocks until you can afford a chamber" view, especially since Ziplocks aren't really suitable for long sous vide cooktimes. You can get a cheap edge sealer for $100 or less, and it'll do a good enough job. But chamber vacs are where it's at. I'm about to step up this week from a FoodSaver to a VP-112, and I can't wait until I do. It's not just about compression, pickling, and marinating... but those are certainly things I'm looking forward to. (A lot.) It's really about the ease of sealing liquids and watery veg without having to worry about inadequate vacuum/seals. It's also about the increased shelf stability that comes from removing almost all of the air from a bag. The chamber vac isn't really necessary, but it comes with a lot of benefits -- and odds are you'll never be fully satisfied until you have one. That's not to say you can't be happy without, or that you won't get great results. But I'm quite looking forward to moving up to the next level.

Matthew_Snyder_68770

YMMV, of course, but it just seems that if you spend $100 on a Food Saver...... I mean, that's like 1/5 of the cost of the 112 from VacMaster, give or take. I just don't see the utility if you're planning on getting a chamber vac, anyway.

prince_of_porcelain

There's a big difference in the consumable cost too, so you may defray some of the upfront costs, but spend more for every use. I'm saving for a VP-215 unless the Polyscience 300 reviews convince me otherwise (dry piston pump vs oil??), or the mysterious Cube finally debuts and wins me over.

Jack_Mayer_85396

@Brian_Douglas - have you heard anything about the PolyScience 300 unit? I am set to go with the VP-215 this week but am really curious about the PS unit ... Thanks

prince_of_porcelain

Sorry, but no...been waiting for reviews to hit the internet, but haven't seen any yet. ChefSteps was supposed to get a unit for testing, but last I heard it was delayed. I'd really like to see a head to head on those two units.

Jack_Mayer_85396

@Brian - exactly my thoughts! I'm just tired of waiting for info on the PS 300 unit. I've waited a long time to pull the trigger on a chamber sealer and have followed the threads here and on eGullet hoping for more information. It's a significant investment for me and I want to get it right!

@Edward, if you're following this thread, your thoughts? Much appreciated as always!

Johan_Edstrom_5586

I've had a chamber vac for quite a while now, I'll try and illustrate what I mean with a few pictures.

I've also owned I think 3 edge sealers, all useless - the plastic cost is high as well.

I played with hand pumps (I'm Swedish :P) - they don't have the pull (pun intended).

I also keep hearing here that compressing without a bag is the same, it isn;t.

So the first is cucumber on a plate, sliced on a mandolin. (Didn't have melon at home).

Inside the vacuum chamber.

And after 50 seconds - Not a damned thing changed visually. Slightly more leathery texture.

Lets do the same with a bag.

In ze bag.

And after a 50 second pull.

Noticeably different.

So - lets pickle.

Pickles in a bowl, no bag. You can start seeing the absorption, once again, 50 seconds.

And after.

You can see some absorption and I'm sure it'll look the same in a few hours.

Lets put the same ones in a bag (in the same bowl and give it a pull)

Notice the complete change, translucent appearance and almost glass like look.

That is what you get with a real vacuum and a bag "slamming" the product inside.

Brandon_Byrd_40557

Like many, I'm awaiting firsthand reports from users of the Polyscience unit. I've been wanting it (hard) since it was first announced and have scoured the net for any info I can get my hands on. I finally broke down and e-mailed them to get some details about the pump strength... turns out it can pull a 100% (0 mbar) vacuum. Or so the rep claimed. I don't see any reason to go for the VP-215 over the Polyscience unit for home use... the durability advantage of the oil pump seems negligible unless you're pulling dozens or hundreds of vacuums a day. That said, the VP-112 is half the price. It's quality control tested to pull at least a 10 Torr vacuum which is a 98.7% vacuum... not sure how much of a difference the remaining 1.3% makes in practice. That said, the ability to create custom programs on the Polyscience unit and to seal by pressure rather than by time definitely gives the PS unit an edge over the competition. Whether it's a $450 edge... I just don't know.

Either way, I'm about to pull the trigger on a chamber vac. I've been measuring my kitchen to try to find space for one, and it looks like the VP-112 may be the only unit that will physically fit in my kitchen space (unless I plunk it in the middle of the kitchen table). The lid makes the Polyscience unit require 30 inches of headspace if you want to be able to open it all the way.

@Johan: Nice pics! I didn't realize until just recently how important the bag is for compression and infusion. I e-mailed Vacmaster about the VP-112 and they confirmed that the pump is strong enough to compress and that people having problems may just be using the wrong sized bag. Apparently if the bag is too large relative to the size of the item being compressed/infused, the results won't be nearly as good. I'd previously imagined that items pickled in a bowl would be the same as those inside a bag, but your photos show that's definitely not the case. Love the color on those cukes!!

Johan_Edstrom_5586

@Brandon - I don;t think you techincally can do a 100% vacuum

That said, from knowing @Brendan a long time, the vp112 is an awesome buy, when it comes to pickling

if it didn't do enough, snip a hole in the bag and do it again.

If the PolyScience had been in existence - sure I'd have gotten it.

From talking to a lot of hard core users I went with the oil.

When you look, don't only think about counterspace, think about the weight

They are friggen heavy.

Glad I could help, I know I've been yammering about it and have gotten a few refutes.

Brendan_Lee_56950

Yeah, I pickle a lot, probably once a week or more. Probably one of my favorite uses for the machine

Jack_Mayer_85396

@Johan, my friend, thank you very much for your informed assistance. Your thoughts on the PS 300 unit? If it is capable of sealing by % of pressure rather than time, that's a plus for me. The dry rocker pump instead of an oil pump is a minus for me ... (I think) I do plan on sealing liquids (soups, stocks, etc) fairly often.

@Brandon - I'm not limited as far as space/placement in my kitchen; the unit is going to be on a peninsula so I have no overhead issues.

I know that @Martin just recently got a VP-215 and he seems to be happy with it.

I like the footprint of the PS 300 ... I also like the 3 pre-set, programmable functions. If the PS 300 will pull the same vacuum as the VP-215, then I'll go with that.

Like I said up-thread, this is a significant investment and I want to get it right. I've been searching for answers for nearly a year now ...

Thanks to all, especially @Johan, for your help.

Jack_Mayer_85396

as an aside, I'd love to buy the PS 300 unit here through CS to help them out ...

Johan_Edstrom_5586

To be quite honest I think it is a toss up - I don't know if @Chris or @Grant or the chefsteps staff has more to add.

The PS looks sexier, it looks like it has more electronics, then at the same time for home budget I think we are beginning

to discuss the virtues of an Audi vs the VW and comparing to a Mercedes.

When you say get the 300 or the 215 - you actually have more power than many restaurants.

I can't name them but I know quite a few using these for novelty items and that extra mile.

On paper the PS looks cooler and better. Once you get to using them, like say doing a custard,

you need to start using your other senses. I.e the programs and HCAAP writers really only as I

see it makes sense on a fixed menu in a larger setting.

My wife loves the 215, she calls it Ed (That is what the display says) after I showed her 2 misfrozen

bags, she learned to judge when to hit seal. - Same with my 12 year old daughter.

If you are packaging 50 lbs of meat in same size, you can set for a 35s vacuum and then a seal.

Takes a few seconds more but does the same deal.

@Jack I think you and I face the same problem, we are old, onry and overbilling people.

It isn't that much about the fiscal or monetary outlay as it is about making the right decision.

Jack_Mayer_85396

@Johan - so true, so true ... thanks for your insight.

If the PS unit will pull the same vacuum and can be programmed by % of vacuum rather than time, I guess I'll go with that.

DiggingDogFarm_65362

"My wife loves the 215, she calls it Ed...."

We do the same. LOL

"I don't see any reason to go for the VP-215 over the Polyscience unit for home use... "

I was going to wait for the PolyScience unit, but the VacMaster VP215 is less expensive AND it has a several year track record that's mostly positive!!!!

Even when the PolyScience reviews start rolling in and assuming they're mostly positive, it'll be several years before we now how the machine will really perform!!!

Current Prices....

VacMaster VP215 $869 with free shipping.

PolyScience 300 $999.95 with $37.90 shipping....$1037.85

There is a relatively inexpensive alternative to a chamber machine and Ziplocs in terms of sealing bags for sous vide use that employs an impulse sealer to seal chamber sealer bags......the bag is sealed....the corner snipped off and air removed via the Archimedes principle....then the bag resealed. Much more dependable than Ziplocs for longer cooks.

More info here: http://forums.egullet.org/topic/144301-sous-vide-recipes-techniques-equipment-2012/page-30?p=1902431#entry1902431

DiggingDogFarm_65362

re: compression with or without a chamber sealer....with or without a bag.

I just compressed some cucumber slices with both the $3.00 faucet aspirator (without bag) and the $869.00 VP215 ( with bag)....I don't see an appreciable difference between the two....both were the same clarity and texture.

The slices were relatively thick..about 2mm..because the mandolin I used is a P.O.S.

I'll get some more cucumbers and take some pics.

We should start a new thread. : )

DiggingDogFarm_65362

VacMaster VP215 compressed on the left (with a bag)....faucet aspirator compressed on the right (without a bag.)