What is Modernist Cooking?

Here's the official PSA from Scott youtube.com/watch?v=7geSSo9UnAc&feature=share&list=PLMxWTHQawkE-ubjHFrLd-g2B8kFrbusrz

That is a good video.

Culinary mythbuster!

Yes - or culinary Atheism in some ways....

atheism is my favorite religion

james.denissen

I'm with you Johan... I really like the thought that Kenji puts into his Serious Eats "Food Lab" recipes where he explains the science behind his methods.

My favorite hobby is not playing football.

You mean soccer?

That too

The only reason I like the phrase 'authentic cuisine' is because too often people bastardize recipes out of laziness... like adding ketchup to pad thai instead of using tamarind and chili powder. That's fine to do, but then don't call it pad thai, call it thai noodles or something. I think there is a huge difference between an experimental modernist chef and a lazy chef that takes shortcuts... but if we don't acknowledge the difference between authentic and otherwise, then perhaps recipes and methods degrade over time, and we all think pad thai is supposed to be made with ketchup. I personally find the history and authentic ingredients for different regions fascinating, and I don't want to lose that. I think that's also why I like modernist cooking, it's meant to take dishes and twist them and evolve them, and does it admittedly and unashamedly; but it also presents them as a modernist version of the dish. It's edgy without bastardizing or claiming to be better.

I see your argument but counter with - there is no authentic cuisine unless you are talking about in the last 100 years from a specific point in time possibly.

But there are regional ingredients that are used that make a dish unique; it's that sort of 'authentic' I strive to maintain in my dishes, because I don't want to make everything american, and substitute common ingredients for all less common / exotic ingredients. I like to explore new flavors and new techniques, and not just revert to what I already know or what is easy. That's what I mean by 'authentic', doing it the way the people in the originating region of the dish make it, not by the actual first incarnation of the dish a thousand years ago... does that make sense?

It makes a ton of sense. The example I often use is that when you look at "sekrit" family recipes (I hate that by the way) - they tend to be a recipe from Grandma that couldn't cook and got one of those Betty Crocker recipe boxes that only contain mutilated "classic" recipes anyways.

It is very much philosophical ponderings, I'm the same way about wanting to try dishes cooked by the "natives" and in the "right" way - The chinese american buffet is one of the saddest examples of completely destroying fantastic food.

You scare wife, you eat like killer whale.

Which reminds me - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdwuiyO7hOU

HAHAHAHA!!!!

I totally agree with the family recipe thing, I was given a top secret authentic mole sauce recipe from a Mexican friend - it contained only 6 ingredients, and one was peanut butter. Hmmm, probably not so 'authentic'.

I think for me the struggle with whats "authentic" is the fact that the more you dig into the history of a recipe the more you'll find that the one you thought was authentic was an adaptation of an older recipe and the cycle goes on. I like to look at a recipe and ask myself what are they trying to accomplish. For example, in pad thai you are looking for a nice balance between sweet, salty, spicy, and sour (in essence what I consider the hallmark of Thai food) so how you accomplish that isn't as important to me as striving to cook within the spirit of the cuisine.

I would have to agree with @Johan that there is really no such thing as "authentic (insert some type of food)" since all food no matter what the ingredients is an "authentic" something. To me there is no one single version of any food, there are only dynamic representations of them, they change all the time depending on ingredients, tecnique, who is making them, modifications and so on. Let me come up with an analogy. I know cars because I have had many of them. A car is just like a recipe, it has an ingredients list or build list that is composed of different items, these items each have an individual part number, and like a recipe they specify exactly what part or ingredient to use. When someone builds a car they specify what goes into that car with a list of part numbers, a recipe is no different, it lists the specific ingredients. To make my 2000 Audi S4 you need that specific parts list with those specific parts. A 2013 Audi S4 uses almost all completely different parts, as they have changed much of it, new engine, new transmission, different body style, it has evolved into a different car, but it is still an Audi S4. To make a recipe of say potato pave you need the specific ingredients. However no 2 potato paves will be identical just like no 2 Audi S4s will be identical. There is a general recipe for both but you cannot completely duplicate either as there are too many variables, quality of ingredients, sources of ingredients, manufacturing quality control, where it is made, who makes it, external variables (IE Temp, elevation, mechanical consistency in cooking/manufacturing ingredients) This means that even though the recipe stays the same the outcome is always slightly different even if it was not the intention. To me this means each individual portion or serving is "unique" or "authentic" which means that "authentic" cannot be used as a blanket term for any recipe or food item in that sense. The recipe could be followed but the outcome is dynamic. Potato pave that I make today with the same recipe will not be the same as last week or last year or a year from now. Are they all pave yes, are they all made with potatoes and cream and butter, yes. Are they authentic no they are dynamic. If I add dill does that make it less of a pave? Or is it pave with dill? It just evolved differently since it is dynamic and not static. What if I don't use potatoes but parsnips, where is the line drawn for what is "authentic" I don't think there should be a line. I owned 2 different Audi S4s. One was a 2000 and one was a 2001, were they both Audi S4s, yes. Were they both "authentic" well they were both Audi, assembled in the same place, at 2 different times, but they were both very different when I got them. One was stock and one was far from stock. Does this make the stock one "authentic" and the modified one less so? They were both composed of the same part numbers when they were made, they just evolved differently. One had dill (the one with dill was much more fun to drive). Recipes evolve everytime they are used, by individuals and chefs, sometimes out of neccesity (maybe you don't have potatoes for a pave so you substitute) either way change is good and evolution needs to occur because of changes in ingredients, tecnique, cooking tools, or personal taste. Modernist cooking is just understanding that evolution and using that information to determine what you can, want, should and should not change. Accepting the dynamic nature of cooking and being open minded to new tecniques and ideas is not un-sexy, it's not reinventing what has already been done, it's not spitting in the face of traditional methods it's just doing things in a different way, I think some people are scared of change and that's why they label this modernist movement as a "fad". I don't think this is a movement, it's just a different way of looking at something, a new perspective. Like Darwin's theory of evolution, you either embrace it or you don't. Those that don't will continue to do things the way they always have, they will continue "tradition" because it's all they know and all they can comprehend. People who question will examine details and make their own decisions, because they are inherently open minded, they seek knowledge, exploration, learning new skills and ideas. Modernist cooks are the Darwins of the food world, not only trying new things but also examining old things to understand "why" they have been done that way, should they be done that way, what other ways can it be done, is there a better way? They are seeking more than a right answer, they are seeking ALL answers. This might not lead to a "best" way but of several ways it can be accomplished depending on the circumstances one way might work better than another. I think people who will really enjoy modernist cooking are science minded, not afraid of trial and error, like learning new things including tecniques, information, ideas. And aren't afraid to break the chains of conforming to traditionalism. I think we have attracted many intelligent, free thinking people to this community, and since it is run by the same type of people, I don't see a limit to what we can learn together.

I included a flow chart for those of you who are visual as I (most of the time) understand the picture I am trying to paint but not everyone else can follow my meandering thought process.

That car analogy makes a lot of sense to me.

I love that you created a flow chart, that is just plain awesome.

My defense of 'authentic' is that I have a preconceived notion of what I expect pad thai to taste like. When I have a craving for pad thai, I want what my preconceived notion of it is, not spaghetti noodles covered in tomato sauce, topped with bean sprouts, and called pad thai. I'm not against modernist cooking at all, I just think it's a different type of cooking than homestyle cooking or making 'authentic' ethnic recipes, and I don't think it's going to nor should it replace the other cooking styles. To me, it's just another way of cooking that I might want to do sometimes, but it's not going to replace making pad thai the 'authentic' way. Just like how dubstep coming into the music scene didn't knock out techno; they both continue to exist on the music continuum.

dubstep makes my brain hurt

@Brendan hahahahahahaha

Allen_Johnson_67197

me likes the explanation @mason that was deep

At work i learned how dynamic life can be and how stuff can go from the expected to OH #&$@ in a big hurry. I find it interesting that we treat so much of what we experience as static and unchanging when we ourselves change everyday, I find it very ironic and pompus that humans have evolved into thinking that way, especially in todays world of techno overload and instant gratification, no one sees the big picture, too many people are focused on IGM to appreciate life. I think life is more beautiful because we are all doomed.

@Mason not so much from work but other life experiences I've come to pretty much the same conclusions - Life is awesome.

Okay, here is an example of - is this Modernist or authentic cooking?

Chile Rellenos - Torch and broiler roasted poblanos,

cleaned and stuffed with Cheddar, Colby Jack and Pepper Jack, all

mixed with a little Sodium Citrate and then allowed to set again.

Dredged and rested, dunked in egg white whipped to stiff peaks and

yolk folded in, then deep fried at 375, finished in the oven.

Roast tomato and bell-pepper sauce, set with 0.1% Xhantan for texture.

Pork cooked sous vide, finished in the fryer then

seasoned with S&P, oregano, cayenne.

Arroz - done in the rice cooker, sushi rice, red onions, cilantro, cumin, coriander, S&P, some garlic oil - Rice toasted in garlic oil first.

Liquid was tomato juice, chicken broth and colored with some achiote.

Poblano verde sauce.

Pickled jalapeños, onions and peppers for spice

Authentic modernist!

Well you know I don't think anything is authentic, some tecnique could be said to be modernist. I think it's just a dynamic variation on two mexican recipes, both look good by the way.

@Mason, yup. That was the point.

And a late entry into LAST weeks contest....