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What about frozen food

Sebas_Braun_54080

I cant see any tip or step showing what to do when food is frozen. Or how to preserve it once is done. Can anyone help me here? Thanks

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susan_fox_33805

Yikes, @Chris. You've just inspired me to get that big slab of pork belly out of my freezer and into the bath! It's in domesticated hell as we speak. Thank goodness I have a few days off coming up ahead... can't think of a better way to spend them than in the kitchen with some local pork belly to keep me and the tastebuds occupied.

Chris_Young_80640

@Reuben — Pork belly is very good for portioning and resealing. If it's been cured, it's very stable at refrigeration temperature. Think 30+ days shelf life easily.

If you do freeze it, -20 °C is actually pretty good for meat and seafood. The eutetic point for most muscle foods is around -20 °C to -30 °C. So a deep-freezer will do well enough. But you have to be careful about automatic defrost cycles for most domestic freezers. They can cause real damage over a period of months for frozen foods.

reub_50398

As far as reheating from frozen goes, I'm making the Chefsteps pork belly at the moment (an agonizing moment lasting about five days) and expecting to have a fair amount left when it's done. Do folks think this would this be a good candidate to portion, vac seal and freeze with the intent of later circulating from frozen and finishing? Or would the cooked meat structure not hold up well to freezing?

More broadly, @Chris mentioned above that the best way to preserve frozen food is to store at the lowest temperature possible. Most of us don't have freezers that reach eutectic points for the foods we're storing (mine goes down to about -20c), so there's going to be some change over time. It would be interesting to know more about how to assess the behavior of foods frozen at common freezer temperatures or ways to determine "shelf" life.

seijoed

@Richard - that has been dealt with in a few different threads, short answer is - no.

richard.fine

At the lower temperatures, the plastics used won't leech stuff into the food? I don't really know how that 'leeching' idea works.

There's ink too, but I guess that it's only ever on the outside of the packaging so even if it does contaminate stuff it'd only be the water, which doesn't matter.

prince_of_porcelain

At the cooking temperatures we're talking about, I wouldn't have any worries about the safety of the packaging. If you're cooking sous vide, you're not likely to exceed 100C, and for most proteins you'll be much lower than that (at least I hope so). If it's vacuum packed and frozen, you could probably cook directly provided you didn't want to pretreat. If it's not frozen, I'd recommend opening and repackaging just because some proteins can develop a confinement odor in the package. I don't think this is a safety risk,however I'm not sure whether it would affect the final product's flavor or not, and it's easy enough to repack that I wouldn't want to risk it.

Chris_Young_80640

My experience has been that the sturdy cryo-bags are fine to cook in.

Brendan_Lee_56950

It will depend on the bag really. I've seen it done with the bags that primals come in but I'm not sure about the smaller individual portioned ones.

ParkerCook_66639

I had a question from my dad. He's getting into sous vide and asked me if you could cook a large cut of meat in the cryo-vac bag in which it came. I didn't know if the cryo-vac bags would be safe to cook in. Any thoughts/knowledge?

Chris_Young_80640

@Richard — Conventional wisdom is wrong. This is actually a well-researched area by meat scientists and I reviewed most of the literature when writing on this subject for MC. Basically, very little damage occurs during the initial freezing step. Unless you freeze REALLY slowly, then you get small enough ice crystals. Indeed, it's definitely possible to freeze too quickly.

The real damage occurs during frozen storage (especially any freeze thaw cycles) that allow ice crystals to grow larger, to move around in the food, to draw water within cells outside of cells (causing them to collapse or rupture).

Cooking straight from frozen seems to allow muscle foods to reach the point where the proteins begin to gel sooner, trapping water and preventing drip loss during cooking. Slow thawing allows more time for ice crystals to continue to do there damage.

richard.fine

@Chris, you said:

"We've tested this and the meat looses less juice than if you thawed and then cooked it."

This is interesting... have you guys figured out why that's the case? Reading around, the conventional wisdom seems to be that the ice crystals rupture structures inside the meat that then let the juice escape more easily - the slower the freezing, the worse the problem - so why isn't that happening here? Is there something specific to SV happening, or is the conventional wisdom just wrong?

Mason_Perry_34060

@Jeff I do this as well and often times ill drop a steak or some protein along with some root veg in the bath when I leave for school and then my wife will pull and sear when she gets home from work, she has dinner in about 5 min.

Jeff_Leung_37994

I love sous vide'ing frozen food. Not because I think it tastes any different, but because of it's convenience factor. Often times I'll buy a NY or rib eye roast and cut it into individual steaks. Season each one, add a small pat of butter, bag, then freeze 'em. It's about 30 minutes of work for weeks worth of convenience. (I know, I could pre-sear..but again, it's mainly about the convenience factor here).

Since a 1 inch steak can go from frozen to cooked in around an hour and then a minute or two on each side for the sear, a nice steak dinner after a long work day is easy peasy.

I use this same concept for chicken thighs, duck breasts, etc.

Mason_Perry_34060

I have seared, bagged, frozen, cooked, seared and eaten with good success. I do a bunch at once when I butcher a primal or after a hunting trip.

seijoed

I like root veggie purees overall, they are a nice way of cutting out just taters and heavy stuff, not to mention you get a sauce for free. The course puree is great with scallops btw

Jack_Mayer_85396

How interesting! I bet that would go nicely with some seared scallops too.

seijoed

Carrots, roasted in the oven with maple, oil, cayenne and some salt, thyme.

Pureed with a little butter, cream and water.

Jack_Mayer_85396

Dang, looks great @Johan! What is the sauce/foam?

seijoed

@Jack - this is from the other day, it was frozen, I unbagged it, seared, re-bagged, in the freezer, then 2h in the bath, post sear.

seijoed

Now I really want to hear @Chris comments on this

seijoed

@Jack I've been thinking about doing it - it would make sense from an oil-waste point of view, I could brown a large amount of foods in one heating. I think I'd do it if I knew my wife used the circulators more.

Jack_Mayer_85396

Got it, 2 trips through the sealer ... Thanks

seijoed

I haven't done that, I normally butcher a larger piece, take it out from the freezer, un-bag, then sear then bag again (usually in the same bag) and cook.

Jack_Mayer_85396

@Johan, so do you freeze then pre-sear? I was wondering about pre-searing when I got the protein home from the market then bagging and freezing.

seijoed

I do, frozen food browns nicely.

Jack_Mayer_85396

@Chris, would you still pre-sear? then quick chill, vac bag and freeze?

Sebas_Braun_54080

Absolutely @Chris, it helps a lot! Now.. how can we account that extra time?.. surely is not the same for meat than for other things.. now.. wouldnt be nice to use negative numbers for accounting that?.. like -20 (means 20 minutes of defrozen), 0 since cooks starts and 30 or whatever till done?... just an idea... Anyway.. I will start this week! so surely practice will give me that information! Thanks!

Chris_Young_80640

@Sebas – In general, it's best to cook sous vide straight from frozen. We've tested this and the meat looses less juice than if you thawed and then cooked it.

If you mean how to preserve the food once it's frozen, then vacuum sealing the food will help prevent "freezer burn" and slow oxidation of any fats. But the best way to preserve frozen food is to store it at the lowest freezer temperature possible. Does this help answer your question?