Non-Stick pans

over the years we have all heard the dangers of non-stick pans to one extent or another and my main question is what types of pans does ChefSteps use and why? Despite having a background in science I have always struggled with figuring out who to believe and thusly I almost exclusively use stainless steel and cast iron pans. These marketing companies using their techniques of FUD (fearfulness, uncertainty, and doubt) seem to always work on me so if anyone has an informed methodology to choosing the pans they did I would love to hear it.

Chris

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michaelnatkin

Many/most of the pans we have at ChefSteps are, I kid you not, from IKEA. I know I was surprised to see that, but I'm sure @Grant_Crilly can tell us why - he's not the type to skimp on pans, so he must like them a lot. I haven't used them all that much, but they do seem perfectly serviceable.

Re non-stick in particular, my understanding is that the key thing is not to let them get too hot - preferably don't preheat them with no food in them, or if you do, certainly not spanking hot the way you can with cast iron. And of course avoid scratching the surface and dispose of them if they get scratched. But this is all third-hand knowledge, I can't provide any citations that it is actually valid.

crkoller

Thanks @Michael_Natkin,

My personality is generally one of being conservative when potential 'dangers' exists - I guess the issue in this case is I have a hard time seeing through the smoke and mirrors to even begin to assess whether or not those 'dangers' are valid or whether or not they are just another marketing campaign to get me to buy some new product...

Johan_Edstrom_5586

I'm interested in the science answer too, I threw out anything with a coating a long time ago.

Brendan_Lee_56950

This research caused a stir a short while back ewg.org/node/8305

My general thought is that teflon coated non-stick pans are good for lower temp purposes but you run the risk of the teflon coating breaking down around 200C (392F) and some studies suggest even as low as ~130C.

But my other angle on this issue is the fact that the costs outweigh the benefits for me. With a non-stick pan it's not a matter of IF but WHEN will I have to throw it out whereas a well seasoned cast iron can do the same thing with a little more elbow grease and can be used by my grandkids 100 years from now.

Jack_Mayer_85396

Check out pans made by a Danish company, Scanpan. They make several lines. Technically not a "coated" pan but still non-stick. They are more expensive initially but the cooking surface has a lifetime warranty and you can safely use metal utensils. www.scanpan.com

Chris_Young_80640

Just back from teaching faculty at Johnson and Wales, and need to spend some time with the family. But I have quite a bit to say about this. I'll post something lengthy about this tomorrow--but in general: skimp on the pan, but choose your burner wisely.

Mason_Perry_34060

Can't wait to see what @chris has to say about this....

crkoller

Thanks @Chris - I knew you would have an opinion on this and certainly look forward to hearing it

Cheers,

Chris

Shannon_Barnes_68642

I'm really looking forward to hearing Chris's feedback on this! I have nice non-stick pans, and then I have a cheap one from Target I got for $8... and it's about 4000 times better than the "better" pans that I have. So far, it's non-stickier, the coating hasn't wore at all, and it's a dream to cook with. But that doesn't mean it's not poisoning me with it's coating, I suppose...

Jack_Mayer_85396

@Chris definitely looking forward to your thoughts ...

Chris_Young_80640

Pans generally are usually made of copper, aluminum, stainless steel, blue steel, or iron. They come in a wide range of thicknesses and all sorts of nonstick coatings. It seems that every option has it evangelist, and cookware manufacturers have made fortunes selling gleaming pans as lifestyle accessories. But does the kind of metal or the coating actually matter? Not really.

Certainly a thin pan made from less conductive iron-based metals will diffuse heat unevenly across the bottom. For some cooking techniques, such as shallow-frying, this can be more than a nuisance. But for a technique like sautéing the hot and cold spots don't matter much because the food is moved around frequently, which effectively averages out these hot and cold spots.

And pans made from expensive copper or, with its high thermal conductivity, guarantees neither evenness nor thermal responsiveness. The thickness of the metal matters as much as or even more than the metal itself. The thicker a pan is, the bigger the conduit it offers for conduction to quickly move heat from one spot to another before convection at the surface can carry it away. Think of it as a freeway congested with traffic. If you want to get more cars (or heat) from A to B, raising the speed limit (or conductivity) a little will help. But adding a couple more lanes (a thicker base) will make a much bigger difference. So as a pan gets thicker, it also distributes heat more efficiently, which results in a more uniform temperature across the surface. Aluminum pans that are about 7 mm thick perform nearly the same as copper 2.5 mm thick (these are pretty standard thicknesses among pans I've measured).

But a thicker pan alone will still cook unevenly if the burner underneath it is too small. Even the most thermally conductive materials simply can't spread the heat energy out across the pan fast enough. The burner should spread heat as far across the bottom of the pan as possible. A huge pan on a small burner will always heat unevenly.

So what really does matter, aside from a pan with a workable shape, is a burner sized right for the the pan, with enough power for the job, and having a few pans in a variety of sizes so you can always choose one that is appropriate for the amount of food you want to cook—large pans for lots of food, smaller pans for individual portions. Cover the surface of the pan evenly with food, and hot spots are then much less likely to develop and scorch the food.

Yes, it is undeniable that copper heats and cools faster than aluminum, which in turn is more responsive to changes in the flow of heat than are the iron-based metals. But does it really matter if one pan responds twice as fast as another to an adjusted burner? Is this more nimble performance worth a few hundred dollars?

I don’t think so. An expensive copper pan, or even a thick aluminum or cast iron pan, doesn’t save you if your burner is underpowered for the amount of food you’re trying to cook. And a cheap steel pan heats more than fast enough if your burner is up to the job. As proof, consider what happens when you use a wok to stir-fry. Woks are made from inexpensive, thin, uncoated iron or steel. Put one in a race for the quickest sear against a gleaming $400 pan if you like. I'll bet my money firmly on the humble wok.

Johan_Edstrom_5586

So what you really are saying is that with my Bandit 1250 tuned to 200hp on the rear wheel I'll do more highway stuff than that guy with the prius?

Mason_Perry_34060

Yes even though the prius (hybrids are completely terrible for the environment) is more efficient you can get more done faster

I guess this explains why I have a 50 dollar cheapo stainless steel set and never upgraded...

dpietranczyk_49940

@Chris Is there any advantage to using a stainless cooking surface versus a non-stick surface to sear meat? In the videos it seems as though you are always using a non stick pan. Are there real dangers involved in using non stick pans when it comes to heating them and scratching them?

Chris_Young_80640

@dpietranczyk – Yes, we do have some nonstick pans and we do like searing in them; although we still add fat. A well-seasoned steel pan (not stainless, as those can't really be seasoned) is even better, but more expensive than our inexpensive, nonstick, induction-ready IKEA pans.

As for the health issues with Teflon. There are some health concerns with regards to Teflon, and for these reasons you want to avoid heating them above 260 °C / 500 °F. This is hotter than the smoke point for nearly all cooking oils, so smoking oil is one indication that the pan is too hot. Heating these pans too hot will also cause the Teflon to delaminate from the pan, wrecking it quickly.

Shannon_Barnes_68642

@Chris_the_pan_expert, do you use stainless steel pans? I have a set, and do not like them for most uses, everything seems to stick terribly! I'm sure a large part of it must be user error, but I do not attempt searing in them anymore, the results are too disappointing.

Brendan_Lee_56950

@shannon really? Whats your typical searing routine with a stainless pan? I find that you should always let it heat up without oil and then add the oil. I have been told (and I may be wrong so please clarify @chris) that you add the oil to the hot pan so that you need a) less oil b) the oil will spread more evenly throughout the pan creating a nice thin film of oil to help with the non-stick properties.

I also make sure to give the pan a nice shimmy immediately after the food has been introduced to make sure it gets a good sear instead of sticking directly to the pan.

Shannon_Barnes_68642

@Brendan, I think I don't heat the pan up enough, for starters... I do preheat it, with oil, and I do shake to spread the oil in a thin film before introducing the protein. I think if the temp is too low, the food doesn't sear, but instead just sticks. I should try it again and pay more attention, but is there a benefit? Is there better searing / caramelization with stainless over nonstick?

Chris_Young_80640

@Shannon – Stainless steel does tend to be sticky, and it won't season in the same way as blue steel or iron will. But try being a bit more generous with the oil in the pan and adding food to a hot pan to minimize sticking. Blotting water of the surface of the food before adding it to the pan will also help to minimize sticking because it removes the juices laden with proteins from meats or seafood, and its these proteins that form bonds with the metal at high temperatures that cause sticking.

Brendan_Lee_56950

@Shannon I dont think there are any inherent flavor benefits to stainless over non-stick. I have very few non-stick pans though so I have much more experience with them and cast iron

johnbonds

I just threw away a $55 (now $85) non-stick frying pan made by Le Creuset. It lasted 1.5 years. I just purchased 2 IKEA 365 9" pans for $30. I just needed oven safe frying pans. Anticipating they'll last about the same amount of time but for $15/pan, I don't care. Great topic. Stick with cheaper non stick.

for reference

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0016ZS9G0?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10101206/#/90101207

ThereseNih_644234

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RebeccaStewart121_815680

I am really looking forward to hearing Chris's feedback on this! I have Best Non-stick Pan, and we quickly have a cheap one from Target We got for $8... and it can about 4000 times better than the "better" pans that We have. So far, it's non-stickier, the coating hasn't used at all, and it is a dream to cook with. But that doesn't indicate a possibility poisoning me personally with it's coating, All of us suppose...Reed More

Bill_Rider_1292541

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