Charcuterie : Fermentation

@Chris Young
I'm looking over MC again..... I noticed there is an alternate fermentation route using the Sous Vide method.
You're telling me that if i vaccuum seal my sausage that i would normally ferment at 70F or warmer and 100% RH that I would get the same result ? This is awesome if so. I would like to try it like now..
Right now my chamber has a heating source with a thermostat and humidity controlled atmosphere..but its full of other meats that will be hanging for another 3 weeks or so... I'd like to just try this sous vide method and then throw in chamber. ?

So back to the question: Your telling me that at 37C/100F for 24 hours will be my "fermentation" and then i can throw it straight in the drying chamber???

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Comments

Chris_Young_80640

Yes, but you need to ensure you're using a culture that's optimized for a fast-ferment. Book should list a suitable one from Christian Hanson.

David_Quintana_63467

wow

groundbreaking..

I'm going to get a batch going on Sunday..i'll post up pics in a while

David_Quintana_63467

is that curing salt #2? i dont think it specifies...i mean would 2 be necessary for a quicker sausage... or just regular pink salt?

David_Quintana_63467

i mean i know what i would do traditionally..but my mind is blown right now...

@chris

Brendan_Lee_56950

my mind is also being blown, i must have missed that part of the book, what section is that in? I know what i'm going to be doing this summer!

David_Quintana_63467

@Brendan if this works how i think it works..this cuts out time/labor/ i'm wondering how its going to taste

Chris_Young_80640

Still need No. 2 because of the slow drying step. Can't really speed that up.

This is covered in the restructuring meat section of Animal Foods in Vol 3.

Sadly, really just touch the tip of the iceberg, but ran out of time and pages to cram more into that chapter (the production team referred to that chapter as The Battle of Stalingrad).

Johan_Edstrom_5586

OH!!! I like war history!

David_Quintana_63467

That could be a whole book in itself

Thanks guys..i'll post up soon.

Brendan_Lee_56950

@chris very cool. Seems like this type of "controlled" fermentation would make things much more controllable and reproducible which is always a plus when making cured meats. Any good books to recommend in this regard? Or is writing one on your todo list! haha

David_Quintana_63467

there is nothing like what i just got done reading in MC book 3 i have lots of literature.. but this is definately "modernist" and i'm stealing it.... just so ya know : )

Seriously....this just fucked my head up... I've been doin charcuterie for a while now..still lots of trial and error stage..but this book and methods...are soo awesome i sound like a little kid...

Chris_Young_80640

Thanks @Dquintana, you're the first person that I've heard really appreciated that section. Look forward to seeing what you do with it.

David_Quintana_63467

Quick Question...you mentioned in MC that the culture F-LC can be used for all three aplications.... can i use F-LC intead of T-spx and do the sous vide fermentation?

David_Quintana_63467

@chris

David_Quintana_63467

5Kg meat base

3% salt

.2% dextrose

.2% sugar

.6g F-LC

**obviously..spices omitted here..

Chris_Young_80640

@Dquintana — Yes. F-LC works across a wider range of temperatures. But it's worth pointing out that you do get a more sour ferment at the higher temperatures than at lower, slower temperatures. Same is true with bread making by the way, low-temperature fermentation is much last acidic than faster high-temperature fermentation.

http://www.alliedkenco.com/pdf/Culture%20Type%20And%20Uses.pdf

David_Quintana_63467

awesome table.... ok i'm going to use FLC instead of tspx and use your sv fermentation..probably Saturday... will post pics throughout

David_Quintana_63467

I'm just now getting to this...but i notice the culture scaling is .02 % but you must use a minimum of 10 grams of FLC this should be accurate??

Chris_Young_80640

So the minimum of 10 grams comes up because it is very difficult to efficiently mix small quantities. For larger batches, you switch over the the 0.02% level relative to the weight of the meat quoted in MC.

David_Quintana_63467

correct....just need verification.... THANKS.

Chris_Young_80640

You're welcome

David_Quintana_63467

So I mixed the chorizo recipe from MC just for the sake of trying the "recipe that works" i used FLC as my culture... I am doing with 100F /24 hours which will be like 1030 pm tonight

What i notice in the waterbath is a LITTLE fat seeping out of the casing and the color seems to have faded a bit

So tonight .... dip it in mold culture and hang it

Chris_Young_80640

Awesome. Look forward to seeing how this progresses.

David_Quintana_63467

After "ferment" ... sprayed with mold 600 and now in chamber.... lets see what happens! I should have some changes in about 2 days....

David_Quintana_63467

I thought I would have some mold growth after two days. But nothing yet.

David_Quintana_63467

@Chris so i diluted 3 grams of mold 600 in a cup of distilled water, then diluted it in like a quart of water.. Fermented sausage, wiped off fat then dunked sausage in mold 600 solution for a minute or two...then hung it directly its been 5 ish days and no reaction?? i thought i would have mould after a a few days??

David_Quintana_63467

@Chris Young So here is the final Spanish Chorizo.

Here are my questions/concerns

So I used ur ratio with and used FLC as starter. I fermented at 70F for 24 hours. (next time i will do 48-72 .

There is definately a slight slight tang i'm guessing from the quick ferment.

This ferment kind of melted a bit of the fat. I thought my chorizo would be a little more studded with fat.

It has lost 32-35% weight...it still has a SLIGHT squish in the middle and eats like cured meat..but not like the dry cured spanish chorizo we love from spain.

Also, it seems like some of the color dissipated during the ferment from the paprika mixing with the fat and somewhat liquifying.

Some things that COULD have gone wrong...after stuffing i may need to chill back down 100 percent and let the myosin set back up..i stuffed and straight for packageing which may have led to an already high temp in fat (hot room temp)

to melt quicker.

anyways..here is the picture..i am pleased..but i know it can be better

Brendan_Lee_56950

That still looks really good. It actually reminds me a lot of the texture of chinese sausage (leop cheung) from the picture.

grant

Looks great @dquintana.

David_Quintana_63467

I'm going to go for another dry cure using the Sous Vide Technique... i know what i'm going to do differently...but traditionally even at 90+ % moisture if you dip your salumi in mold solution during the fermentation it will start to form. So the question is..: "if i dip my salumi in mold solution AND do sous vide fermentation, will it be just as beneficial or will it work under vaccuum?"

This time i'm doing a 72 hour ferment and going to be a little more careful on my cryovaccing and making sure my meat is completely set before i package and drop in water bath..

any feedback @chrisyoung @grantleecrilly

Kyle_Hildebrant_82029

Just found this thread. I'm going to try to work through this in more depth, with a few different cultures and some comparisons between traditional and sous vide methods. The biggest factor (in my mind) right now is the water loss that happens during a traditional ferment. More here: http://ourdailybrine.com/sous-vide-salami-fermentation/

Kyle_Hildebrant_82029

David,

Where di you land on this a bit back? I'm doing some work around fermenting en sous vide myself.