QOTD #59

michaelnatkin

Do you particularly choose organic produce? Why or why not?

(Sorry for late question today!)

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Comments

tshewman

When possible, yes. Much preferred. Data demonstrates more nutrition (in a few studies) and majority of data demonstrates less pesticides/toxins. So, although not guaranteed more nutrients (or flavor), is generally much less toxic.

Matthew_77468

I do not unless I have a reason to believe that it will be far superior. Sometimes I choose an organic product because I know that the product was cared for better through processing. If I could have found a non-organic product with the same quality assurance, I would have chosen it. I have yet to find anything that had a better "value" in terms of taste vs. cost solely because it was organic.

On the other hand, I do choose to support local farmers and directly purchase goods when that is an option. I like knowing that the person who is selling the product to me knows more about the product than I do. I can't always say that this is true at a supermarket. In these cases, I will absolutely spend extra to buy directly. I also find it extremely fun to visit local farmers markets or orchards when I'm traveling and buy to take home.

Matthew_Snyder_68770

There was a thing on "Bullshit!" (Penn & Teller show on Showtime) where they demonstrated that our bodies are sort of engineered to prefer slightly sweet flavors. That's part of the reason why blind taste tests reveal most people prefer non-organic; over the past decades we've lost touch with what an un-messed-around-with piece of fruit actually tastes like.

Matthew_Snyder_68770

It's not so much that I buy organic as much as I tend to buy produce from farms that are local and that I know. They tend to be organic, even if they aren't CCOF (favorite veg vendor from Fresno - Yong Xiong - isn't certified, but only because they don't want the administrative hassle), so the problem kind of sorts itself out from my perspective.

tshewman

No different than home. Even grass fed no pesticide (well, at least none that the supplier was aware of-can't account for drift) beef and when they tasted it, many here said "that's not beef".........I was fortunate to grow up on a farm until I was about 10, we raised our own chickens, help milk the cows etc etc and remember what they tasted like. IMHO, our taste buds have lost touch. And I think some have never been fortunate to have tasted unadulterated food.

tshewman

maybe the question should have been "certified" organic. ;-) Many here know their purveyors (or some grow some of our own) and buy organic (even though not certified) .

Cheryl_71360

I am not die hard about it, but I do try to buy organic first. I am lucky in that we have a "Locally Grown" program that I love. I go online, order my products over the weekend and go to the designated pick up spot on Tuesday. Everything from meats to dairy to produce. Yea, it's a bit higher in cost, but I'm getting fresh, local product as well as supporting my community. I think every community should have something like this. Here's the link to the one in my area in case anyone wants to try and get one started. http://augusta.locallygrown.net/welcome

Tim_Sutherland_52834

Everything I buy is organic, except salt and water.

Brendan_Lee_56950

Nope. Unless I absolutely have to or it looks significantly better than the regular produce I buy whatever is looking good at the moment. I'm not wrapped up in the whole GMO stuff and prefer to just enjoy the fact that I can afford to choose what I eat and cook.

ajcampelli

Yes. My primary reason is the reduced use of pesticides / synthetic fertilizers, both in terms of lowering my consumption of such products as well as reducing their impact on the environment. I do regularly buy non-organic produce if organic is not available or if there is significant difference in quality.

That being said, from the non-exhaustive research I have done, I'm not convinced that organic is "better" in terms of taste or nutrients.

robmcquarrie

Do you have links to these studies? Everything I've read is nutrition is the same and pesticide use could be higher because organic uses "natural" pesticides that do not work as well so they have to use more. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/no-health-benefits-from-organic-food/ or http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/acupuncture-organic-food-and-other-questions/

No I do not buy organic if there's a decent non-organic cheaper choice.

jordan_poudrier_74905

I buy from sources that I do my research on and trust to give a good quality product usually local but always raised and produced well not necessarily organic but healthy practices.

DiggingDogFarm_65362

Oh boy...here we go....ya know..I've been gardening for 40 years and I haven't once bought chemical fertilizer or synthetic herbicides or pesticides. I think I view the whole organic deal much differently than most people..based on what's been posted here and elsewhere.

I think that some important differences between conventional and 'organic' aren't obvious to most folks, it's not just about "pesticides" and "nutrition"

I look at it like a checking account vs. a savings account...

Conventional being the checking account...lets call it checkbook gardening....you make deposits and withdrawals on a never ending and more frequent basis...deposit and withdrawal...deposit and withdrawal...never really gaining anything, your always depend on deposit and withdrawal...eventually overdrawing.. leading to penalties and the need greater deposits...on and on...always dependent on more and more purchased inputs (chemical fertilizers and pesticides.)

Organic is more like a savings account drawing interest..lets call it savings account gardening.....sometimes a bit slower to start...but with a small investment and occasional deposits you draw interest...more and more all the time....building long term fertility and soil health to the point where the need for inputs becomes minimal, yet , you earn more and more interest.....reducing inputs.

What could make more sense?

Anyway..I'm no freak about it...not all that I eat is organic.

tshewman

I know some of the personel on the blog referenced (they are an allopathic group - polite description). A couple of the studies are below. The data seems quite consistent regarding higher pesticide residue (so as long as that is not a problem for people to ingest .m...) and mixed regarding nutritional differences. Most data appears to compare larger Corp organic (same as small farms....?) Vs conventional.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20359265 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24968103

DiggingDogFarm_65362

Rob wrote....

"pesticide use could be higher because organic uses "natural" pesticides that do not work as well so they have to use more."

I can't speak for others...just myself.... last year the only thing I sprayed in a rather diverse garden was skim milk on squash and cucumbers to prevent powdery mildew. It's pretty much the same every year.

HammeredChef_DEFINITELY_does_NOT_work_at_22134

Hi, this is the other "Rob", the crazy one, I don't bother with organic even though I try to use local produce. I'm so damn old and drink so much red wine that I will die before the pesticide residues can even give me a headache ....

DiggingDogFarm_65362

Red wine is good! : )

Johan_Edstrom_5586

Write more on this, less disorganised. I'd buy.

reck.harm

There are some cases, where i intentionally buy organic, like when i need the zest of citrus fruit. I don't want any pesticides on that.

Apart from that, i just buy whatever looks the most appealing to me, regardless of whether it's organic or not.

marianogreco

I don't mind if it is organic or conventional or GMOs,if taste good is good.

I promote GMOs but I don't have any prejudice to taste and use products made whit different methods.

I find some biodynamic wines nice even if I think that the biodynamic religion is a bullshit.

The micronutrients have different impact in different species,for grapes the impact is notable like in other fruits, for vegetables is less important ,not influential for grains.

Howard_Cantor_44685

For me it's not about organic, it's about supporting my local growers. Some farms I buy from are organic and some aren't, as long as it's close proximity to me and my kitchen, the quality is good and the price is fair I'll buy from them.

Matthew_Snyder_68770

It's a cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason..... food tastes better in Europe. It just does. And for largely the reasons we're talking about here. Industrial farming simply doesn't exist on the same level across the Pond, and so the attendant side effects aren't as prevalent either.

Brendan_Lee_56950

Most of the certified organic produce in my local grocery store sits and withers to death. The section seems to get smaller and smaller each month. It just prices itself out of existence. I don't perceive any added inherent value to justify the price jump and apparently many others feel the same. I look at whole foods the same way, their food looks pretty but for the cost difference I don't perceive any extra flavor benefits and while they may make claims about pesticides etc the rest of the big agro people aren't exactly out to kill us either. It would kinda hurt their bottom line.

tshewman

The concern of some of the anti-GMO and conventional methods is that Instant death is not the only definition of toxic. Similar to the functional medicine shift. GMO is difficult to obtain without pesticide residue (at least publicly) and the toxic elements of pesticides have been well documented. So, while I don't think the companies are out to kill us, they (like pharma companies-formerly worked in the industry) have entire divisions that calculate potential losses due to lawsuits because of harm. That alone makes me question their knowledge of harm. So, for me it's a personal decision n that I simply don't want my children exposed to more harmful elements if I can help it (we have enough to deal with already).

robmcquarrie

Ha, allopathic. I take it you go to a naturopath?

That second pubmed link does seem to support you though and is newer than the one I linked to. So maybe you're right. Still, any pesticides on non-organic produce are well within safety limits.

Brendan_Lee_56950

I'm a psychologist so cost and value aren't just physically measured for me and the added mental cost of having to make an elaborate cost benefit analysis every time I buy a carrot just isn't worth it to me or my family. The basic failsafes are in place to protect us from instant death as you say. I have to put my trust in the system to protect us to the best of their current abilities otherwise I would have to be walking around with a tin foil hat eating nothing but carefully selected food and not enjoying my life at all.

You seem to be very concerned about all of this and that's your prerogative but I question how much more enjoyable your experiences would be without this added level if fear and anxiety.

tshewman

I think the educational process is quite enjoyable. The decisions aren't difficult really (for either side). Beyond the elements of organic is the flavor and the impact of certain practices on the flavor. Organic can be pesticide free and almost flavorless (like many of the organic strawberries this time of year). So, I look to different foods and the more I look, the more it takes me outside to our own small garden (to pick old frozen beets and the like) and to question why that flavor is so intense. So, I don't think organic is the be-all end-all and the conventional farmers are simply providing for their families (their #1 priority), so who can blame them. I sometimes wonder if the farmers wouldn't use different methods if the return was the same, but I don't lose sleep over it. It's their choice. Dan barber's 3rd plate (book) is a fairly balanced look at he past, present and thoughts on the future. It's made me think allot more about flavor....and it's links to the current farm movements (in all directions).

jason.r.whitworth

I generally choose whatever produce looks, smells and feels the highest quality, organic or conventional. Also without visiting the farm or producer it seems difficult to know it its mostly just "green" marketing or actually superior growing/environmental practices.

DiggingDogFarm_65362

Arguing personal preference is a waste of time. : )

marianogreco

Time is getting harder for science deniers

http://youtu.be/NbALyWZxgzU

bkeene12

Sometimes, but a small farmer I get summer veggies from put it to me straight one day; He said, "My produce is good, I take careful measures to make sure because I eat it." I asked if it was "Organic". That day I learned "Organic" was an expensive label you had to pay for and he could not afford one. This kind of made me look at the organic option in another light...