Is Chef Steps Dead?

Does anyone else feel like they have witnessed the steady decline of Chef Steps over the past several months from an uber-cool cooking site into a something not worth following or visiting? This used to be the place to get great techniques and recipes, with amazing content unavailable elsewhere. Now it's repackaged content (see today's repackaging of sous vide content) or a bunch of commentary without much value (see the recent rice and onion postings). And this has been the trend for some time. I'm sorry to be critical, but as someone who has been here since almost day one, I miss the old Chef Steps! I would appreciate knowing what we should expect going forward?

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Brendan_Lee_56950

It's definitely slowed down but I also think that there is really only so much cutting edge stuff that one can come up with on a weekly basis. I would much rather see them spin traditional recipes more frequently then try to drop innovative bombs each week, that's just not feasible.

Lennard__34626

I think they've been kinda slow with releasing new content. I can't claim to know what they're doing but Lorraine is doing a great job with the facebook videos. Lotsa interesting stuff to be discovered

robert.c.brown15

I've been thinking along the same lines. I haven't been visiting as much as I've been busy with other things, but each time I come back it seems less and less like the ChefSteps it was and more and more like eGullet (talking specifically about the community). I guess that will happen when you go from a small community of enthusiasts to thousands of people. I get not being able to release content as quickly as they used to and there really is so much cutting edge stuff out there so I guess it is what it is. Luckily I was here towards the beginning so I know who I can trust for reputable information instead of someone chiming in with a different way to dice an onion using a mandoline...

tshewman

I personally see it differently. Their audience at all levels has grown. This means for the very basic techniques, they have to release, or re-release the videos etc. E>G. "How to mince a shallott" appeared to get a huge number of hits and shares, yet that's a very basic technique. So more intro levels come in. Then things like the baked ham (which again, they have to experiment and test with-look at the recipe and one go takes a few days) for the more intermediate.......etc etc. So they are trying to hit many levels on a regular basis and repetition is actually necessary (IMHO) and none of that will go away, so to balance all the different levels, their release, or re-release without overwhelming any level (or themselves) may be a task on it's own. I would definitely agree with Leonard in that Lorraine and FB videos have been phenomenal. Just my .02.

SteveM_20803

Sorry, not meaning to pile on here, but I have found my self less drawn to the site, but it is because I miss the old forums. I like seeing what is new and active and the old forum organized that pretty well, in that I could skip the threads I wanted to. Now I do follow what is new, but I have to switch to what is hot to catch up on old threads. And no offense to anyone, but I would check out "What's for Dinner" once a week for food porn. Now I wade though it all the time since there are always new posts. I just don't see this format conducive to long running thread the likes of what we had under the old forum. Just my .02 for what it is worth.

robert.c.brown15

Yep. This was stated (in one form or another) pretty early on with the introduction of this new forum layout.

Chris_Young_80640

Folks, I want to be careful not so stop this conversation, because we absolutely want to hear your feedback on what you like, what you don't like, and what you would like to see more of from ChefSteps. So, please, keep the feedback coming.

I will say that there is a lot going on behind the scenes, and I think you'll appreciate a new schedule that publishes videos more frequently during the week. Yes, some of this content will be more approachable and perhaps a bit basic for our most experienced community members, but you can also expect to see cutting-edge techniques being part of the mix.

But you tell us, what do you miss? What recent stuff do you like, and what is kind of meh?

Patrik_Racz_19800

i miss the old days when you came over here, everything here was original, funky and experimental. dont get me wrong a pan sauce is good, or a ruben is a damn good sandwich but at the end of the day its all over youtube, and its not very original. recipes like what you can see in the advanced section on the site are the bomb, and yet lately all we get are very simple stuff. i asked earlier about whats going on, the site seemed dead, but got no answer. well it seems like other people noticed as well. couple of month ago we had a big conversation going on about community updates and we got a promise that you will try to focus on it and update us, but as far as i can see not much has changed. i remember i was so excited when i discovered chefsteps, i was here every day, now im barely here.its a bit sad, i dont know what changed, maybe you just trying to draw people in with the very basic stuff, but at the same time you pushing people out as well. anyway this is my 2 cent, you decide what you do with it

sebastian_palmigiani_21610

i agree that it is a challenge to come up with cutting edge stuff on a weekly basis and i don't expect that. however, there has not been any really cool stuff for a long while now. i would be happy with one cutting edge recipe per month. they can even call it 'The Blow Your Socks Off Recipe of the Month' :-).

pepealberola

Yes, I agree with this. The old forum layout was perhaps less visually appealing, but it was more practical to follow topics.

Luis_58461

when i first found chef steps i was absolutely over the moon for quite a time. everything was so innovative and new. i saw every video at least 10 times (foie gras rocher?! perfection) in the same time i bought modernist cuisine and got hooked up with everything big time.

this whole cooking has got so fancy lately. you can turn on the telly at every minute of the day and you will find a cooking show. with this new trend a lot of people want to make their experience in the kitchen, and that is good. But, and there is always a flipside of the corner, it has got fancy, hip, and with this there is a change in books, internet and so on. i found bookstores full of vegan cookbooks, markets full of hipsters who are buying their 3 carrots in skinny jeans and internet forums full of what we are talking about here.we have a saying in switzerland that says: if you get a horse for free, do not look him in his mouth" chef steps is free and still full of very interesting stuff. for example the videos for every steps are just great even if i know how to mince a shallot. but the steps on that rib roast are very interesting and good both for a trained chef and a hobby chef (in my opinion). i obviously would like to see more of the stuff like you did before but im not working there and i can't hardly complain for something free. but i sure must agree with the guys here, there is a lot of stuff on the forum that is exactly from people who are new to this and have questions wich are not really interesting for a trained chef. i don't have a solution for this. its in your hands where you want to go with chef steps, i just feel that there are enough sites where you learn to mince and not enough like cs. the success of the site shows that something that is too hard to complete still can give someone inspiration and can be interesting even if one can't do it. thats it! and sorry for my english....

Manfred_18311

Anyone new coming to the site will find a tremendous amount of wealth in recipes techniques presented in a unique way. Let’s not forget CS has a business plan running next to the generous offered free content. There comes the point when a substantial amount of videos and classes is created and need to be offered to new members or everyone else interested in it. Of course those material is, has to be, shown in repeating periods on the main page to attract newcomers to the site It sure could cause a disappointment to the veteran members who took part in a vibrant project from day one and were spoiled for a long time with weekly new vid’s and material. I agree with Brandon there is a limit of recipe fireworks you can light up and still be fresh and electrifying.

What I miss is the frequent participation of the CS Team in the discussion as known before. Not to moderate, the community does a great job there by itself but often there are questions for the kitchen wizards to answer or comment.

The other thing is, yes it seemed the old forum was much better structured to check and go back in the list of subjects, the FB style has become just what I have predicted in the transition to the new forum style. A subject is discussed but after three days it sinks in and to my observation no one ever pulled out a subject older than a week. Not be able to jump back to page one but to scroll deep to the “ center of the earth” make is a dull and time consuming process to research for older posts.

One thing of all really phantoms me is the resistance of CS team not to implement PM into the forum. I don’t know any forum cooking or others not giving its members the ability to communicate via PM! Even FB has a personal messaging. I know I’m not alone with it, and there was never giving any statement by CS team what is the reason behind it. I certainly will not expose my personal mail address to any mail harvester by placing it in the forum. Members really should have the option to build networks among each other. Weather these are professionals or the home cooks here. No PM really bugs me to the point of frustration. It thoroughly drops the value of the site as a meeting point for all level of cooks; it strips livability of the community and renders it down to read and comment only.

jason.r.whitworth

its hard to criticize a place you really like (Especially when most of the content is free or very low cost) but i kind of agree with some of the others here that recently things have been a little less interesting.

The ChefSteps-Style Biryani seemed like more of a blog post when it should have been more like the tartare recipes which really explored the concept of "Tartare" in an interesting and educational way.

Its fine if the direction of the site is to merge the blog with the main site but its confusing when the Biryani is presented as a recipe and then there is still a seperate blog. "The ChefSteps Family Meal: “Vietnamese Subway” Edition" post was maybe more informative and interesting then the biryani post but did not appear on the main site.

Same with the "5 things you need to know about sous vide", that seems solidly like a blog post, and uses recycled information from other places on Chefsteps, yet shows up in the main "recipes" area.

I also agree with people that the forums have become more of a "look what i cooked" space and less of a discussion space. Again "Look what i cooked" is fine but it maybe just needs more balance.

I think its unfair to imply that Chefsteps is dead or dying or anything like that. Business grow and change and drift and I think its more likely that a video of a cute dog eating a rueben appeals to a broader audience then say a fish butchering video, and is more likely to spread on social media or become "viral". Its just the nature of the internet that posts like "3 things never to do for this" or "5 secrets that you must know for that" are more popular on social media, spread to more people and are more "Successful" for marketing your website to a wider audience. Unfortunately for people into the deep science of cooking its going to be less interesting.

Do you post something like a fun accessible reuben contest with a cute dog that maybe gets thousands and thousands of shares and likes and brings new visitors to the site etc OR do you make a class on Ike Jime fish killing which like 0.1% of people would care about or even think about trying?

I would imagine the team at CF is trying to balance growing the site, adding new members, getting beginner cooks interested in sous vide, getting content shared across social media platforms etc with keeping more advanced, more informed people happy with cutting edge cooking.

It is tough (impossible) to make everyone happy.

All that said i still love Chefsteps, check in often and look forward to what's next.

ejf12009

Sadly, I must agree with the gist of the other commenters. ChefSteps is not magical for me like it used to be. Noted that much of the content is free, so if I get any benefit from it, even just enjoying the video, that's positive value.

First, some good news / things I have been happy with as of late:

- The recipe library is now broad enough that it can be a reference, not just a source of inspiration.

- The 'what's for dinner' part of the forum is very good. Yes, it can clutter the front page of the forum since the forum is basically a newsfeed. But the quality of the pictures submitted is quite high, and I find it more useful for inspiration than eg tastespotting or foodporndaily.

But, some bad news:

- The feel of the site seems very different now, and to my mind not for the better. It used to seem like this trove of new ideas, sometimes in reach of the home chef, sometimes a challenge for me to grow towards. It used to feel like a confederacy of cooks trying to try new things. It used to be a site unabashedly giving precise measurements in weight and talking up the values of precision. Now I get frequent spammy emails with clickbait headlines "5 things you need to know about sous vide" or "make the most amazing blah blah blah tonight." Many of the new videos are not for exciting recipes. Many of the new videos don't actually have recipes in them or show the techniques in detail; rather, they are just advertisements for the recipe below. Or in the recent case of the onion puree and biryani, no recipe at all.

- The forum seems less active. Could just be my imagination. The new forum is slicker than the old forum, handles photos better, etc. But the physical layout is less conducive to good discussions. Things get buried. It's hard to see what's new at a glance.

- The classes have not blown me away. They are inexpensive, so that's good. But I don't feel like, say, the advanced sous vide class really "leveled me up" (another of those clickbait phrases). The classes I've seen - some free, some paid - all feel like a rough collection of useful information and recipes, not comprehensive resources. But hey, at least they're priced as such. Example: the bbq class. Only $10, not bad at all. But most of the recipes were not new (previously seen on CS). Some of the reading was interesting, but much of it was not terribly practical. I wanted to know about using liquid smoke, smoked salts, the technique behind the apartment ribs, how to modify that, what can I do to get BBQ like effects indoors in an urban apartment, etc. Instead I got a few $ worth of interesting reading and recipes I had already seen.

The ugly:

- CS has often pitched interaction with world renown chefs as one of the perks. Sometimes the classes will say something like "any problems? Ask in the comments and we'll help you out." In my experience, this is not accurate. I don't think it's worse as of late, just never fully materialized. To be clear, the chefs certainly do sometimes respond to comments or post in the forum, and that's appreciated. But even back in 2012 when I came to CS, I didn't feel like I could reliably get answers to my questions from the team. If I posted a question on a new recipe, maybe 50/50 chance. But a question on an old recipe, or a multipart question, or something like that? Slim chances. And I don't blame you guys - responding to the community could be a full time job. But don't market what's not there.

The bottom line: I still enjoy coming to CS. But I used to do it daily; now I do so perhaps weekly.

com-chefsteps

or integrate classic preparations with modernist techniques, such as, say, sous vide corned beef.

robert.c.brown15

There was a time when I could PM Ben, Chris, Grant, etc. and get answers! Now I can't PM anybody.

Brendan_Lee_56950

I think the underlying tone I'm seeing from the posts here is a lack of engagement from both the CS team as well as with each other. The two culprits seem to be the format of the new forum (i.e. not being able to directly message each other, posts are hard to find due to newsfeed style) and the lack of interaction from the team and the community. I'm not sure the first can be fixed too easily as I know this forum is somewhat of an experiment as well. I think the community really craves challenges and values innovation. I miss the monthly/weekly challenges, I know that they aren't always going to get a ton of participants but I think it keeps us thinking and active. I think one thing that could help bridge the gap between the team and the community is some more transparency. Give us a glimpse into what you guys are working on, doesn't really matter to me if I ever see the fruits of that labor, maybe it's a project for someone else who has contracted you, but a glimpse into what you guys are doing day to day, week to week would be really interesting and I think help us feel like you're still around and that the community is not an after thought.

tshewman

I (I believe we) miss the personal interaction direct from the CS team. The advice, tips, direction and corrections. It seems to have diminished a great deal. Recent stuff I like? - the basics! A great reminder of what I forgot, or just how large of a world cooking is (so many techniques and foods). The recent ruben recipe etc was excellent, and I think we are all a little "spoiled" with the recipe being first, then expanding on the various ways........the Ruben went the other way (which is great if you already have the corned beef :-)..). The techniques and recipes formerly were a "surprise" and now there appears a divergence of structure. E.G. the onion puree recipe (which is great BTW), the recipe had no measurements (then a day or so later later post on FB why use scales.....?). This would appear to address audiences that don't want to push themselves and don't want structured recipes and confuse those who are accustom to the normal precision (as you ellude to). Great for getting more involved, but communication (similar to the above) with the virtual members might bring some clarification. So, nothing is "meh" as it were, just unexpected.

Chris_Young_80640

Thanks to everyone for your candid and thoughtful feedback. We really appreciate your dedication to and participation in ChefSteps—many of you have been here since the beginning, and we're grateful to have you on this journey with us.

To be honest, a lot of the things you're noticing are, yes, just about the growth of a young company. We need to grow and reach new people if we want to succeed and make an impact, and to do that, we are trying all kinds of new content. We want to get more people thinking about cooking the way you guys already do, and we can't reach them if we don't talk to them through our content in a way they can relate to. We also want to show new people the older stuff that you guys already know and love, and in order to do that, we need to resurface it.

You're right that we've been less active on the forum and in the comments, which, again, is just a product of growth. Our community has grown from 30,000 last year to over 500,000, and we simply don't have the bandwidth to reply to all the engagement that goes on on our site and other platforms. We hope to build the kind of community where members support each other and answer each others' questions, and we hope that you can help share your knowledge with each other, and some of the newer members who are getting their bearings. (After all, you guys often know things that we don't!) Still, we're actively navigating this and searching for sustainable solutions, and we apologize for the broken promise that we'll always answer your questions. In truth, we just don't have the bandwidth, and we wish we did.

Since the beginning, we've always been trying and testing new things, and it's true that we can't please everyone with everything we do. We're working on getting better every day, and we hear you about new content and issues with the site. We want you to know that we are focused on generating more new content for all of you, and improving the site (and we have some other projects going on behind the scenes that we think you'll appreciate). Please know we really value your opinions as we keep growing. Keep them coming.

robert.c.brown15

Bring back the old forum format and private messaging.

Everything else I understand and appreciate you elaborating on. Fingers crossed.

Tim_Salazar_36007

Hi All, Tim here, Product Design Lead at ChefSteps. Thanks to everyone for your feedback on the forum design. We definitely know there are a shortcomings—We're working hard on getting resources and bandwidth to address these and believe me, I wish we could go faster. Know any more designers/developers out there? http://www.chefsteps.com/jobs

com-chefsteps

I worried during the recipe pause, but was reassured that funding wasn't running out anytime soon. I'm convinced and unsurprised by Chris, Tim, &c.'s helpful responses.

It's just hard, since this'll likely be the only time I'll have direct access to folks who can teach the rules for how and when to use methocel 50 or diastatic malt powder, and there's just so much we could talk about, but I know you're busy. CS helped coach me into home clotted cream, and I'd put in so much more effort with more engagement. That said, I know I'm one of half a million. (What happened to Grant's coached students?)