isi force marinating

Name_74837

Is there a link for force marinating meat/protein?

Here's the DIY version done by a good soul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMQRSJUFuwM

I did it in a isi siphon with tri-tip.

The meat came out ... carbonated.

I think it's worth talking about, but I can't find an outlet to talk about it in.

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brian_martin2001

First time I'd heard about this was inn modernist cuisine, which then directed Me to the video you posted above. Its the same principle of pressure infusing something.

brian_martin2001

Some time back, i took a pressure cooker, and using a gasket made from Some high pressure tubing, a bike under tube valve stem, some binary epoxy, and a hose clamp, i made a pressure marinating devise. I pressurized it to around 75 psi (according to the pressure gauge in my bicycle pump) and it held pressure for a week, before i released the pressure. After the integrity had been tested to my satisfaction, i used it to make some corned beef: total marinade time 2 days, turned out very well. I don't recommend anyone find this as it can be extremely dangerous, as You have to disable the emergency pressure release on it, but just a general sense of how i did it, if you're a little nuts like i am.

tshewman

carbonating the liquid makes sense, though actual penetration would seem questionable (IMHO). Proteins are typically denatured by acids or strong alkalis and the CO2 is largely uncharged thus neither a base nor acidic. It may be possible the sugar and sauce would be acidic to briefly denature the the surface, and the CO2 would simply go along for the ride on the surface of the meat, but I would respectfully submit there is very little penetration/infusion going on here. There would be a chance for both chemical attraction for sauce to meat and I don't recall the lid being completely resealed which would explain some of the loss of the sauce with the gas. Interesting discussion however.

brian_martin2001

I've actually read this in the modernist cuisine. it's not carbonating the liquid, but exposing the liquid and meat to high enough pressures where the liquid is forced into the meat. with the understanding of how traditional marinading works, it doesn't really seem like it should work, but it does.

tshewman

In MC, they used 80psi (a bit of a difference to the ~50 in the video) and alcohol (very acidic). It will speed up the marinading process they openly admit it doesn't yield the layers a longer marinade does. The bonus part is any gas will do, the limitations are the meats must be small. Only vacuum tumbling works better. Unfortunately, my VP112 won't fit in my dryer so I can't test it. :-)

tshewman

Nice!!!!!

brian_martin2001

I had to refresh my recollection of the article as I hadn't read it in some time. Regarding what is printed in the book, it says in the little excerpt that it is specifically referring to alcohol extractions not developing the layers of flavor a longer extraction would. As far as the marinading is concerned, it doesn't say whether it is better or worse than traditional methods. They also do not indicate whether there was a significant difference in the 55 psi from the Fizz-Giz to the 80 psi they used in their own experiments, as they say they did not test the fizz-giz themselves. Regretfully, I'm not sure either one of us will know what their opinion of pressure marinading vs. traditional marinading unless this site is secretly frequented by Nathan Myhrvold.

brian_martin2001

Or very stupid, I'm leaning towards stupid, because when you take a pressure cooker up that high, you are seriously jeopardizing life and limb. You can go on youtube and check out pressure cooker mishaps in the kitchen. my favorite one is where the lid separates, and blows a hole in the ceiling while the pot of the pressure cooker forces itself through the stove top and down through the oven cavity. As I said before, I don't recommend anyone doing this: if you do, you're taking your life, and anyone's life in the room with you, in your hands.

Brandon_Byrd_40557

Pressure and vacuum marination of meat are overrated.

brian_martin2001

While vacuum marinating of meats is somewhat common, I've been unable to find anywhere that makes pressure marinated meats. Where we're you able to find it, or did you do it yourself? If you did it yourself, what pressure did you take it to, and for how long?

Brandon_Byrd_40557

It's just the physical principle of the thing. Meat is dense. It doesn't have pores or channels that you can force a marinade into. It's not like a cucumber or a watermelon where you can disrupt the cell walls and force liquid into it. If you could, you'd totally destroy the texture of the protein. I've also never seen convincing data linking modified atmospheric pressure with significantly changed marinade times. Some data suggest that vacuum tumbling is better than normal marination, but the effect seems to come from the tumbling rather than the vacuum. At any rate, I don't regard either as a practical technique. The only exception is if you Jaccard a piece of meat and marinate it in a vacuum bag, since the needling creates pores into which the marinade can be forced.

brian_martin2001

I understand, just was wondering if you'd had any first hand experience with it.

Rich_McDonough_67546

It came out fizzy because you used carbon dioxide. If you use nitrous oxide (ISI calls them cream chargers) then it will marinate without the fizz. Release the pressure SLOWLY so as to keep the marinade inside. Otherwise I'd suggest you're doing what Dave Arnold would call pressure-infusion (of the liquid) as the rapidly expanding gas will break the cell walls (in this case of the meat) and you'll end up with chicken flavoured marinade and damaged meat!

Marius_du_Plessis_275715

Not completely true, I see how you are thinking about the process though.