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The Kitchen Cleaning Thread

specialk22tt

Okay everyone,

I know MC has touched on this to some degree, but I wanted to get an idea of the best & most efficient way you experts clean your kitchen/workspace. This includes all tips for how you clean your cutting boards, what you use to hand-wash dishes (and subsequently how you clean your sponges), how you clean your knives (which brushes work best), etc. Anything you can think of.

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Comments

michaelnatkin

More than any specific cleaning method or tool, the biggest difference I see between how restaurant cooks and home cooks clean is simply intensity. Restaurant cooks clean with focus and purpose. They have a consistent plan for what order they do each aspect of cleaning their kitchen, so they aren't standing around thinking about it, and they keep their hands moving at all time. They might chat while they clean, but their hands never stop moving. If you start to think about cleaning this way, I think you'll find it not only faster but more enjoyable because you focus on the challenge of how to do it more efficiently each time.

DiggingDogFarm_65362

The "clean as you go" approach works best for me. especially with a very tiny kitchen and no dishwasher.

~Martin

specialk22tt

Does anyone use sponges? If so, will microwaving them kill the bacteria? What about soaking them in a bleach sol'n?

Chris_Young_80640

@Kevin — I recall reading a scientific paper about 10 years ago that compared different ways of disinfecting sponges. Microwaving for 1 to 2 minutes (until the sponge is steaming and way too hot to handle) was the most effective. More effective than soaking in bleach. At home I microwave the sponge every night and throw it out every few days.

specialk22tt

@Chris - Thanks for the insight. I've heard of it but wasn't sure if it was just a myth.

specialk22tt

Has anyone considered using a concentrated salt water spray bottle to clean cutting boards instead of a 200 ppm bleach dilution? Just seems a bit more safe than bleach (even though 200 ppm is quite dilute).

Brendan_Lee_56950

What do you feel is unsafe about bleach? The spray I use is diluted so it's not like i'm spraying straight bleach on the board, I personally feel much safer using bleach then salt.

specialk22tt

@Brendan - Why wouldn't I feel unsafe ingesting bleach? It's bleach. Diluted or not, I still feel uneasy spraying it on a cutting board knowing that a trace amount will be taken up from the foods we cut on it.

Salt, on the other hand, is an integral part of our cells. Why would you feel bleach is safer than salt? It seems it should be the other way around.

Brendan_Lee_56950

the bleach is diluted and dried, you have to let it air dry before use. It's a common practice and IMO a lot safer than messing with salt and whatnot which is messy and time consuming.

To further that point, most household bleach is chlorine based which is pretty much what is used to sanitize your water as well so if you are confident drinking tap water then sanitizing your boards shouldn't be a concern either.

specialk22tt

I have been letting it dry, but I do still believe a trace amount is absorbed onto the food and thus ingested, which worries me still. You're right, it's common practice but so are many other things and one thing I've learned is conventional wisdom in this world usually leads one down the wrong road. 200ppm bleach is not much, but 200ppm of something like arsenic, mercury, or lead would probably concern someone too. I filter the chlorine out of all my water because I don't trust it. By the way, if you want a REALLY good water filter, check out Big Berkey filters.

I think we just have a difference of opinion with what we're willing to accept as risk. Although negligible, I still think the concern is valid over the long road.

Just curious, why do you feel dilute bleach is safer than messing with salt? I'm genuinely wondering if there's something I don't know about salt solutions.

Brendan_Lee_56950

Mostly because I know bleach is pretty foolproof, I can spray it and guarantee a nice even coating, and it works the same way every single time. There's a lot of effort and mess involved with salt and not to mention that I'm not really sure how quickly salt does it's thing. Bleach sprays on and once it's dry I feel confident that it's sanitized, I don't have that same level of confidence with salt.

specialk22tt

If you doubt salts abilities to kill bacteria, then I'd avoid cured...well anything.

Matt_67991

@KevinChlorinated water is safe to drink, and has certainly saved a bunch of lives. Bleach is safe at disinfecting concentrations. Bleach is neither lead, arsenic, nor mercury.

Brendan_Lee_56950

@kevin i know you are being facetious, but my point being that salt takes time to work, bleach is pretty much instantly doing it's duty which I like.

specialk22tt

I see both your points and I wholeheartedly agree with you about it's killing power, just not sold on it coming into contact with my food, even at such diluted concentrations. I'm sure we're debating about the minutia, but maybe the minutia matters in the long run. Who really knows yet. In general I agree overall about everything and will probably continue to use a 200 ppm soln for cleaning my cutting boards. Just wondered about salt. Thanks for the good points.

t.stanoulis

For home kitchen cleaning, there can be a reasonable argument against the regular use of bleach in order to avoid excessive hygiene practices. There are two perspectives on this: firstly to avoid selecting bacteria and secondly to avoid limiting exposure to minor pathogens.

Samuel_68313

Do you have any literature to back that up Thomas? A quick google search didn't turn up much. I'm pretty anal about cleaning my kitchen and would be interested to read more about that.

t.stanoulis

Notice: apologies if some of the following is not appetizing kitchen talk! I’m not being graphic, but do not proceed if you’re not interested in reading about micro-organisms and diseases. Further, my references here will be quick and dirty, as I haven’t given much time to go digging, sorry! School always gets in the way, doesn’t it? Sigh…

Firstly, while it appears likely that there be merit to the notion of exposure to minor pathogens, the idea really sits on the notion of exposure to blatantly non-pathogenic micro-organisms, which are eradicated easily and unnecessarily by practices of extreme hygiene, such as over-cleaning and the liberal use of antibiotics, and which, under such conditions, may be selected against in favour of major pathogens. The essential goal is to maintain a diverse microbiome to allow proper and full immune development. With respect specifically to the gut flora, a healthy ecosystem will also allow for better digestion.

Here’s a fun little story as an intro to the matter.

The general idea is founded on what's commonly referred to as the "Hygiene Hypothesis," (or, "Old Friends," which I prefer!) which makes the claim that maintenance of the human ecosystem is critical. Though much emphasis is on children, in my view it’s more of a research bias than a matter of exclusivity. The hygiene hypothesis seeks to explain a number of conditions, including in particular allergies and auto-immune diseases, the foundations of which are generally considered to be during childhood (I can’t find a reference at the moment, but I have read about adult rehabilitation of intolerances and allergies through exposure to micro-organisms), but also to overall gut health and therefore systemic immune health. The classic example is of individuals exposed to dirt, farms, and animals in childhood; these individuals, as adults, have an unusually low incidence of asthma and allergies.

Exposure to farming in early life and development of asthma and allergy

Note that breast-feeding, instead of formula-feeding, and vaginal delivery, instead of C-section, are also strongly correlated with improved gut flora. Vaginal delivery seeds the gut flora and is, simply put, definitely not clean and exposes the newborn infant to tons of “friends.”

Fecal Microflora in Healthy Infants Born by Different Methods of Delivery: Permanent Changes in Intestinal Flora After Cesarean Delivery

Analysis of Intestinal Flora Development in Breast-Fed and Formula-Fed Infants by Using Molecular Identification and Detection Methods

With respect to mainstream medical research in adults, faecal transplants and parasite-introduction have shown extraordinary promise in curing such as Crohn's and C. difficile, among others, potentially. For Crohn's, the affected patient is exposed to parasitic worms. For C. diff, faecal transplants are used to encourage a more diverse flora. The foundation for some of the idea behind those experiments has been the evidence that certain conditions simply do not exist, in effect, in regions where hygiene practices are not pristine (read: a majority of developing areas).

Trichuris suis therapy in Crohn’s disease

Stool substitute transplant therapy for the eradication of Clostridium difficile infection

So, that’s some applied research. In the hypothetical realm, this evidence lends credibility to the idea of reducing excessive hygiene tactics. The basic outline follows. In current, developed Western society (for me, that’s Canada), the living conditions have seriously improved from the urban cesspool of industrialization. Vaccinations, medicine, and lower population densities have really made the incidence of dangerous infectious disease approach zero (with emphasis on the word approach). Given this context, we need now to relax our habits and worry less about eliminating every micro-organism lest we face the potential consequences in the form of more and more extreme allergies, intolerances, auto-immune conditions, and possibly cancers. Humans are ecosystems, not singular organisms, and therefore we actively need a diverse microbiome. This is an idea which is much more difficult to test or analyze thoroughly than are isolated cases. But I believe that it has merit, nonetheless.

Easy to read, sometimes too-biased, generally well-referenced launchpads:

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/search/label/hygiene

http://huntgatherlove.com/category/tags/hygiene-hypothesis

t.stanoulis

Post-post wall-of-text/tl;dr warning. My bad.

Samuel_68313

Really appreciate you taking the time to post that. I still think I need to learn more about it, as a general rule I am not sterilizing my equipment constantly, just doing a very thorough clean on a regular basis.

I would imagine though, that as a proportion of minor pathogens we encounter on a daily basis, the amount from cooking equipment is rather small to the point of being negligible, at least in the context of ones health. And the benefits of removing unwanted flavours/aromas from equipment and the potential to remove harmful bacteria would certainly outweigh that.

However, I'll keep reading as I am far from an expert on this.

Out of curiosity Thomas, where about's in Canada are you? We have quite a few people in Montreal here (myself included).

Matt_67991

@Thomas Interesting post. I'll look at the links in more detail later, but it probably does bear mentioning that it is a different matter for homes vs restaurants. Restaurants should (I know, lol) obviously be held to a much higher standard of hygiene because contamination can easily spread to many more people.

Manfred_18311

The

question is; did one grow up in a highly hygienically living environment (1-5

year old) or not. In case of yes the immune system already missed out on the adjustments

(resistance) to gems and heighten hygiene concerns in the day to day use may applicable.

Contamination

of food and food products are to concern as so far as the

surface of one’s hands is contaminated with about 20.000 germs at any giving

time. Coking at home the fact is rather to neglect as ones Immune system

is “used” to its own germs. Studies have

shown a key board holds a higher amount of bacteria’s than a, sorry.., toilet

seat.

Using gloves is common standard in restaurants with good reputation.

@Kevin, if

you want to go sure try with alcohol. I have a 85% Ethanol (Alcohol 96,4%) and 15%

distilled water mixture in a spray dispenser I use on the cutting board, knobs

and handles.

For sponges,

@Chris has given the best advice.

specialk22tt

@Manfred - Thanks for the tip. For some reason, I didn't think of alcohol.

Ken_137064

Cleaning sponges? - I just throw them in the top rack of the dishwasher. They come our super clean and disinfected