The Long Term View

Hi everyone,

I asked my first question to support privately, and was asked to respond here so everyone can see my question. I thought up my second question here as I was writing this out.

What will happen to my Joule if ChefSteps goes out of business (or some other catastrophe with ChefSteps)?

Also, what is the expected life cycle of the Joule? I have knifes, pots, and pans that are twenty years old; I worry that tying the Joule so closely with a smart phone / tablet can make the Joule to be obsoleted before it's time.

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Comments

brian_martin2001

A lot of time and energy has been invested making this unit. It has every amount of quality and longevity as say a vollrath, a polyscience, or a vacmaster. In the past, when they saw that certain things were not up to specifications, instead of going with a cheaper, but less durable, design, they issued a statement that there was a problem with the manufacturer, and they'd keep us posted. ChefSteps, the the users who have known them for a long time, is synonymous with excellence. When the ChefSteps team puts their name on something, it's worth while.

If they were to go down, permanently, as long as you have the app downloaded on your device, and have the unit, you're all set. the app doesn't run off the website, it's a self contained control unit that in your phone.

If you unit breaks, and ChefSteps is no more, the same thing happens to everyone else who's bought something from a business that went belly up. You're out that investment. Granted, no one wants a business that they love to go out of business, but that's a constant risk you assume as a consumer. Almost everyone has experienced something they really really liked, but then the company went under, or that product was discontinued, what have you, and you were unable to do anything. This happens. It sucks, but this is an ever present risk with everything you have bought, and will buy, in your lifetime. Good luck!

fisher23

If something happened to ChefSteps it wouldn't effect your Joule, your Joule would still work the same as it did the day prior. Yes, there wouldn't be updates to the app and you couldn't download it and put it on a new device but my belief is, it would keep working.

As for longevity I am sure it won't last forever but I sure it will last much longer than the last television I bought that died two days after the warranty. Or my last microwave oven that only lasted five years. Personally, I hope to use it enough that I wear it out and have to buy another. The pleasure that I get from pursuing my passion far exceeds any downside. I tend to gravitate towards new technology and sometimes being an early adopter isn't for everyone. With all that said, the bottom line is, I fully support ChefSteps and have full confidence that they have done their homework and over engineered Joule.

AngelArs_240456

Henry, are you saying that you are afraid that smartphones and or tablets will become "old" technology soon, and Joule will become useless? People love to communicate, and so there is little chance of that happening, in fact if anything, since Joule connects to a smartphone/tablet then for most people it will be like getting an updated display for their Joule every couple of years, since most people switch out their smartphones/tablets around that time period. Plus over time Joule will acquire new capabilities and become smarter and smarter. Your pans can’t do that. There is also an API for Joule. Plus there are other apps that you could use with Joule to cook Sous Vide, such as Sous Vide Dash or Sous Vide Toolbox.

ChefSteps is not just any ‘ol company. When they choose to do something, they do it right or not at all. Look at every single component of Joule and you will see that it is very rugged and engineered to be the best. Try to find any other Sous Vide circulator that is waterproof. You won’t find one because Joule is the only immersion circulator that is completely sealed against accidental water intrusion. Even the grade of stainless steel they use (316L) is top notch. Do you know what else uses 316L stainless steel Henry? Try biomedical implants. The reason there is no display, is because there is no display to break. That, in and of itself makes Joule even more dependable. One day someone in your family might say “see this Joule Sous Vide circulator? It belonged to my great - great grandfather”.

brian_martin2001

At no point in his entire post did he even allude to "are you saying that you are afraid that smartphones and or tablets will become "old" technology soon, and Joule will become useless?" His concern was what happens if ChefSteps goes out of business: will his Joule still function. His exact words: "What will happen to my Joule if ChefSteps goes out of business (or some other catastrophe with ChefSteps)?"

You say "Plus there are other apps that you could use with Joule to cook Sous Vide, such as Sous Vide Dash or Sous Vide Toolbox." Could you provide your sources? According to the FAQ by ChefSteps the only app that will operate the joule it's the ChefStep companion app.

You also say "One day someone in your family might say “see this Joule Sous Vide circulator? It belonged to my great - great grandfather”" this odds a charming notion, but incredible naive if you actually believe it will never ever break. It is a very well engineered piece of kitchen apparatus, however, it is a piece of electronics, designed to be immersed in water. Things do go bad after a time, and it is extremely unlikely that a piece of integrated circuitry will not be immune to this. It will most likely last for many years, if used properly, but no one here can promise that it will never go bad. ChefSteps, at present, only offer a single year warranty. If it was designed to last indefinitely, don't you think the warranty would be a little longer?

themaroon

I don't think he's wrong to ask the question. This is a legitimate concern with any wifi-enabled, app-controlled device. Presumably the Joule communicates with a server operated by ChefSteps, as does your app. Even if the app is routing directly to the Joule they must have something like a DNS and it would cease to work without that the minute your IP changed. Most people have a dynamic IP at home. If ChefSteps shut down no matter how well they designed the Joule, it could easily fail.

The Joule's app will also be updated by ChefSteps. While that wouldn't be a problem one day later, it would eventually. Mobile OS changes can make old versions stop functioning. We had an app that we stopped supporting and a few years later it no longer worked. If they went out of business, both of those become liabilities, but ones which the ChefSteps guys could easily help with. They could turn over the server to a third-party. Or maybe Joules can be altered with a firmware update to allow you to run your own. Unexposed parts of the API could be exposed to developers, the app's code could be open-sourced etc. I am sure they'd do the right thing, but it's a question worth asking.

AngelArs_240456

Please do not put words in my mouth. At no time did I ever say it would “never” go bad. You are the only one here who is using words like “never” and “indefinitely”. If Epoxy or Polyimide circuit boards are used they could conceivably last well over 35 years. When a solder mask coating is used like Parylene it would last even longer. Many Megtron 6, Isola FR408, Nelco N4000-13 boards are rated over 60 years. If ceramic substrates are used they could last well over 100 years. This is what weapons systems, downhole sensors and aerospace use. I do not know what ChefSteps is using but I AM confident that they did not go the cheap route. ChefSteps used extruded polycarbonate, and 316L stainless steel for the very reason that it would make the product more corrosion resistant, and last longer. The heater used was specifically designed and invented by ChefSteps using thick-film technology and water-cooled power switching for the purpose of efficiency and longevity. They engineered Joule to the tiniest detail not for the fun of it, but because they wanted to have the best, most durable Sous Vide circulator on the market. History has shown they do their homework and they use the best material(s) for the application. I worry about a lot of things in this world but Joules longevity is not one of them.

fisher23

I'm not questioning him at all. Just giving my personal opinion.

Jason_345545

According to the specs page for Joule, ChefSteps is opening up Joule to developers. This means other apps can be developed to work with Joule.

"We’re going to open up Joule for developers! If this sounds interesting to you, apply for SDK access and tell us your idea."

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1FHGXcAVRB4tjcwEKQE8zb564A7-aFY13TeCtXV4tikc/viewform

Dmitry_Malakhov_326685

If something can go wrong, - it will go wrong.

I'm not saying... just saying...

pgcath

I have a bit more insight on this.... In speaking with @Chris_Young_80640 at the Joule demo day, he mentioned that the Joule is engineered to work in the scenario that you have a Joule, a device with the app installed, and no Internet connection. He also mentioned, as noted in this thread, that they are opening up a very extensive dev program. Lastly, he mentioned that they are already implementing sunsetting plans - if, for some reason, Chefsteps goes under - the services that provide additional functionality are being engineered so that they can be stood up on an AWS or other server and supported as an open source project. You'll also be pleased to know that they're already having penetration and other security tests run against their stack. If I can provide other information, let me know.

fisher23

Additionally, they are working on a web based interface too, with a contingency plan to keep that and the app active in the event of a catastrophic event as @Max_Foster_18996 said.

fisher23

Noticed you changed your user name.....

HammeredChef_DEFINITELY_does_NOT_work_at_22134

I don't know if this helps but, I just gave away my original Immersion circulator (running great), and old VWR unit built in 1997 with an analog temp dial. It spent 5 years in a lab environment and I bought it in 2002 and it probably ran an average of 20 hours a month AFTER I bought it. The Joule has only the motor (shaft, impeller) as a moving part. All state of the art circuitry, no digital read outs, no buttons, no way for water to get in and EVERY part has a heat sink component (including the circuit board) to disapate and transfer heat away from components. How long will it last? you do the calculations... this was not designed as "planned obsolescence", will they build newer, faster, more powerful models.....god I hope so

pgcath

It just changed... I did nothing.

It appears my thread got Results.

Henry_Rieke_331251

Thank you for the information- most helpful.

Now, just wish I had my Joule...