Go to the Article: A Complete Guide to Sous Vide Packaging—Safety, Sustainability, and Sourcing
Thank you for this guide; it's very helpful! Could you please elaborate on which cases/dishes would a vacuum sealed package be preferable or "mandatory"?
A must read if you want to get into Sous vide cooking and enjoy it to its full extend. Keeep it up!!
Good overview thanks
I would add one other thing to zip lock bags, something that I do.
If any food even at temps below 85degC are going to be cooked longer than 12 hours I never use them as they are likely to fracture and you can get moisture ingress through minute holes in bags over time.
You can see the quality difference in these bags v's vac seal bags. Place something in them like a steak, freeze and then once frozen thaw out with bag on plate. when thawed you will see blood under bag on the outside. This shows that they are not the perfect seal.
Vac bags are only way to go for longer cooking.
By the way most people use domestic Vac sealers - these are actually miss labelled - they do not Vac seal only remove the air from inside, atmosphere pressure is same inside and out when tested. True vac seals are normally only commercial machines. So whilst domestic give you an advantage they are not as good as proper machines and sometimes depending on the food only as good as the Archimedes method of dropping bag in water and letting the water pressure take the air out (especially if the bag has a fluid in it water method is far simpler). Well in my view anyway.
I would use ziplock bags for 75% of all my Sous Vide cooking and have never had a problem except for the time I failed to ziplock it properly and spent the next day cleaning out the bath and machine.... we are all allowed dumb mistakes sometimes.. only need it once, never happened again!
I agree this is a great guide & Norm's comments are also a help. The CS cooking chart is a must & stored on several of my cooking tablets/ ultrabooks.
I have found that some brands of older Vac bags (big name) tend to degrade after a few uses & become stiff but newer to market bags seem to be better at standing several uses. I turn the bags inside out & put in the dishwasher at 60c along with everything else.
The double seal Ziplock from Japan are good & they are microwave safe.
I have had some mixed success with freeze before seal, eg I roll a chicken breast skin on in curry mix then coat with yoghurt then freeze with butter & later Vac seal. I dont freeze any fresh seafood or liver type foods as they tend to be tough or fall apart.
My Scallops Margaritas are a good example of freezing the drink, fresh cultured cream & butter adding Umami & fresh scallops then vac the bag.
Another trick, Cut your meat into cubes & chuck into your siphon along with your flavours, Charge it with N2 (must be N2) and put in the fridge, Open, pat dry, seal & sos vide, Use a MAP gas flame to char the meats, Chicken Tandoori anyone?
I think it is more a matter of when you "wouldn't" want to use a vacuum chamber.
For many meats, especially hamburgers, you don't want to compress the meat excessively by using a vacuum chamber. Doing so will: affect the texture unfavourably and make unattractive vacuum-seal lines on the meat.
When I use my vacuum chamber for these types of meats, I simply reduce the length of time that I run the vacuum chamber...with the focus on "just" eliminating the air in the vacuum bags.
When I first used my vacuum chamber for making hamburgers, I was greatly disappointed with the results, as I had compressed the ground beef excessively. It was a learning experience.
This is the best discussion I've seen about sous vide cooking with plastic bags, with actual research:
http://nomnompaleo.com/post/12463202060/cooking-sous-vide-plastic-safety
Make sure to read the comments. Punchline: no plastic or silicone is really safe from EA leaching. Does the benefit of sous vide outweigh the cons? That's up to you.
But I don't like this article because it compares sous vide cooking with driving out and eating at a restaurant which is ridiculous. It should be comparing sous vide cooking with more traditional cooking methods, like cooking on a cast iron or steel skillet, slow cooker, etc.
I'm not against sous vide cooking. Personally, I own a sous vide and I use it reluctantly and sparingly. What I make in the sous vide is usually no more healthier than cooking using a more traditional method like this article implies, but the results can be more delicious depending on what I'm making. One cooking method is not healthier than another. It's what you're eating.
So let's be real here. The taste and convenience of what I get out of the sous vide outweighs the cons of the EA leaching into my food, so I do it. Let's not lie to ourselves and say it's healthier. Chefsteps, your articles are awesome, but this one misses the mark.
Quote from your article "I was able to confirm, for example, that Jarden’s FoodSaver bags are made from polyethylene glycol and nylon, and don’t contain BPA, phthalates, or other plasticizers with EA-leaching additives."
I love ChefSteps but my concern about Sous Vide is not addressed here, the environment. SV encourages the use of yet another plastic throwaway at a time when we know plastic lasts forever and damages the ecosystem, i.e. Garbage Island. And does it leach into the food? I'm not sure it's as innocuous as this article makes it appear. I'm always surprised when people who appreciate fresh food, responsible farming and pure ingredients willfully ignore the sustainability issue about the use of plastic is our kitchens.
Hi Janie, thanks for your note. We talk about the environment in the section called "Isn't cooking with plastic wasteful?" -- We totally understand and appreciate this concern, and it's one we share with many of you. We've given it a lot of thought and addressed it in this article, but we, too, are hoping for more sustainable packaging options in the very near future. Again, thank you for your note.
Thanks for this great text.
Maybe you can get us some advice as well.
My wife i pregnant and we are trying to an understanding on how bad SousVide can be for mother and child.
We really would like to have our meat but as its often mentioned that SousVide are not for people that are not of good health (or pregnant). What we are wondering is if this is valid for all cooking or only if you cook with rally low temperatures. What about cooking a meat medium done and then leaving it there a bit longer to get rid of some extra bacterias?
Hi Johan. Sous vide is a great way to cook for mother and child. You can't have rare meat or poultry, but you can have medium-rare and medium done meat if you pasteurize it. You pasteurization the meat, poultry, or fish by holding it at 55 °C or higher for long enough that any foodborne pathogens will be destroyed. The main challenges are that you have to measure the thickness of your food and that the cooking times can be quite long. You can find the pasteurization times in the table I generated for the New South Wales Food Authority, which is valid for beef, poultry, and fish (though fish will taste quite over cooked).
Thanks a lot, this information have been hard to find, BEEF TIME!
Like I said, read the comments. Quote by the author of study:
"I am one of the authors of the study on EA in plastics that you cited (Environmental Health Perspectives, July 2011, pp 989-996), as well as an avid amateur chef. These two statements from your post are categorically untrue. There are MANY additives to plastics, and especially to the types of polyethylenes used in bags, that have EA, not just plasticizers. There are antioxidants, slip agents, antiblocks, process lubricants, and antistats. Additionally, there are low levels of impurities such as catalyst residues which can have significant biological activity, despite low concentrations."
Saïd E
From : Morocco Casablanca and Paris
The Foodsaver people say not to cook in their bags for long periods of time. I told them to get with the program and produce souls vide bags.. i guess we are just a niche market at this point.
I have a pork shoulder from costco that came prepackaged in a vacuum sealed plastic bag. The plastic feels like my food saver bags, but the label makes no mention of the type of plastic used. Should I go through the hassle of transferring it to a food saver bag, or is the kirkland signature packaging probably okay? Or to ask another way, If it looks and feels like polyethylene, is it polyethylene?
Or to ask another way, If it looks and feels like polyethylene, is it polyethylene?
I use pre packed, lamb and pork because they are food grade plastic, chill down to 4c for use later on as i cook f
for my restaurant. you can drain off the gel and boil it for a couple of minuets and use as a base for a sauce after sifting. I finish the seasoned chops I have cut from the shoulder in the oven 250c 10 mins, or dry well and pan finish.
Thank you ChefSteps your information has answered all my questions (at this stage), I got my water bath and vacuum sealer last week for my birthday and have been trying it out this weekend , Yesterday I had me first ever sous vide rack of lamb and it was spectacular the tendernesss and flavour (I will say it again ) was spectacular , now I am waiting for my 63 degree eggs . Thanks again
You can spring for these German CASO bags which are very handy and seal very well. I get about 5-6 uses out of each depending on the spices or contents used. That reduces waste.
Any recommendation for commercial non-PVC plastic wrap? The issue with Saran Wrap is that the little rolls you buy in the supermarket are often not wide enough to be useful, and they don't hold many feet of material. It would be nice to get something that was, say, 18" x 2,000' in LDPE or LLDPE.
Hi folks,
When I first started my sous vide adventures, I used the gallon bags from Cash & Carry. They seemed to work fine and the results were terrific. The last few times I used the (apparently) same bags and found that the bag ended up being full of juices and I had a perfectly medium-rare inedible steak. I have always used the water bath method for removing air from the bags. It was as if the new bags had stretched. Has anyone else run into this problem? Is there a particular bag you have found most reliable? I know Ziploc is mentioned; do these maintain their evacuation the best? Thanks to anyone who cares to share their opinions.
Has anyone tried to cold smoke a thick ribeye prior to cooking sous vide then do a pan sear?
I've found I can use Ziplok bags and get a really good vacuum by placing a plastic drinking straw into the bag, so its just below the zipper, and sliding the zipper across to close until the straw is jammed into one end of the bag opening. Pinch the straw to prevent water getting into the bag.
Simply place the bag into water, with the straw sticking up. The water pressure will push out most of the air, than suck the rest out using the straw, and as soon as you're ready, squeeze the bag and straw to close off the bag. While still squeezing, pull the straw out and finish sliding the zipper to close.
It works every time for me.
Can I do this method of cooking using a pressure cooker?
I am getting progressively more confused. Do I vacuum seal?Or do I just let it hang out with a clip over the rim of the pan? HELP
Diane, you can do either. If you have a vacuum sealer, go ahead and use it! If you don't, don't worry about it.
I had this same question but learned that depending on how delicate the cooked item is demands how to seal it for presentation. Anything above 150 degrees gets vacuumed at my house to avoid bag breakage. Also the Ziploc bags tend to feel like there to soft or might be breaking down on high temp.
Maybe there will be a reusable silicone bag one day. I assume it will be a similar material to the silpats we see.
I'm not sure if they're made of silicone, but there are already similar reusable bags that are usable for this purpose:
http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/store/product/l-ku-1-quart-cooking-storage-bag/3247993?skuId=41475850&ioid=HH000032&mcid=PS_googlepla_nonbrand_storage_&adpos=1o1&creative=43742641549&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CjwKEAjw0pa5BRCLmoKIx_HTh1wSJABk5F_4YdppVNxCMImN3h87n1KKtm0QARCAwbQGs3kRWkVB2BoCaEXw_wcB #
no
Douglas: Thanks for your comment, but the link to this table is broken!!. please correct, is a very interesting information, but..
I seem to be getting some air in my bags during cooking. I think the bags may not have had a perfect vacuum sealer before I started cooking, meaning there was still some air in the bag before. But the question is whether it's dangerous or a potential health concern. Please advise. Thx!
My local health department is giving me a hard time with respect to getting my HACCP plan approved. Does anyone have any recommendations on scientific works that may be used to help convince my local health department??
hi if you didnt use all the food like the fish or meat how would you use it for the next day to regenerate it?
I purchased a sous vide unit on Amazon and have only used it once, for thick pork chops that were wonderful! Then, I searched for recipes on line and ran across a disturbing article, warning of the possibility of botulism poisoning due to cooking with vacuum bags! Haven't used it since reading this. Is this a real concern? Thanks?
I'm so glad to have found this site with all of these awesome recipes. FoodVacBags.com sells both Vacuum Sealer Bags and Chamber Sealer Pouches for those of you who are using vacuum machines. They are BPA free and FDA approved - perfect for safe sous vide cooking.
3 mil Chamber Pouches will hold up much better than Ziploc bags and can be sealed with a low cost impact sealer. They are inexpensive for the much better quality - you can get 200 8" X 12" for $18 which would last quite a while!
Just got my Joule and I really love it, barely getting into this style of cooking. Can you please do a segment or video on reheating after cooking sous vide? Having trouble finding some good information about this subject. Thanks!
I was told that i need to seal the zip bags, but noticed that chef steps does not sealed them just open and put a clip. Any reason why the difference in methods? And does it matter? Thank you
Stasherbag.com
I've been happily using reusable silicone bags with zip clips on the top. Works great!
Is the 8x12 bags on Amazon large enough for most big steaks? The 11x16" size is triple the cost. Thanks.
I've been doing sous vide for years (first outfit years ago was a Rube Goldberg contraption made out of a livestock bucket heater and a PID temp controller with probe). But I have a question I don't think I've seen addressed before.... I have a chamber vacuum sealer... pretty stout one. I'm now cooking a couple of chuck roasts for 48 hours... but here's the question: Is it possible to pull too hard a vacuum on meat such that it makes it more likely to squeeze more of the juice out as it cooks? Is there an optimal level of vacuum for various foods? Obviously with fish and other tender proteins you wouldn't want to squeeze it all out of shape, etc. But what about beef, etc.? Thanks for any insights!
Hello
I'm an old dinosaur who cooks Escoffier, Careme, Savarin etc etc Very old cook books, very old recipes BUT folks like ChefSteps, Blumenthal and Mr Achatz have totally sold me on modern techniques.
In fact I think that if Escoffier and Careme had had Sous Vide and Liquid Nitrogen to play with it would have blown their collective tits off! Their cooking would have been even more amazing!
I've been sooo veeeding for years. Didn't want to buy a domestic vacuum sealer because they are crap.
Just got some professional Sous Vide bags which I fill and then partially heat seal by covering the plastic envelope with baking paper and the edge of a hot iron. I leave a tiny gap at one end and insert a small copper tube, attached to my vacuum cleaner hose. Sucks all the air out a treat and I then iron the little hole shut too. Bit fiddly but Hey Presto! Necessity was the Mother of Invention.
A friend built a little heating element from an old electric kettle with a thermostat so I can set the temperature I need and I stole a small electric motor from one of my son's old model boats and attached the small propeller at the end of the drive shaft. Very Heath Robinson but gets the job done circulating the water nicely. I'll be sorry to see it go when I finally get my hands on a Joule when they are available in Europe WHICH WILL SOON, WON'T IT ChefSteps!!!!
I'm very fussy about soggy cheesecake bases, Hate 'em! so I prepare and freeze the sweet biscuit base first and then use very thin Alfapac roasting sack (which is safe up to 210c) as liners for cooking my cheesecake mixes separately at 160c in a Bain-Marie. Once cool I put my frozen super crunchy biscuit base on top, turn the whole shooting match over ready to pour an almost set strawberry jelly on top for a very beautiful thin & professional looking finish. The Alfapac liner I can cut out to any shape I need and it peels off very easily.
One of the joys of cooking for me is making my own kit for various preparations out of all sorts of stuff.
I've recently finished cutting a length of plastic plumbers pipe in half lengthways to use as a mould for my frozen Bouche de Noel. If properly lined with quality baking paper and cling film it is perfectly safe and saves spending a fortune on fancy kit which sits in the cupboard most of the year. Yes I'm an old cheap skate.
Thank you ChefSteps for the great ideas and the inspirational cookery!
Now then.......................... Where's my Joule??? Hurry TF Up! :-)
I buy frozen tuna steaks from ShopRite that are individually shrink-wrapped in thick plastic. The packaging says (in all caps) to NEVER defrost the fish without first removing the plastic. Is this particular to fish or is that true for other frozen shrink-wrapped foods? I'm asking this in relation to a 5 lb pork rib roast that I bought shrink-wrapped, and then immediately froze without opening it. Rather than letting it sit in the fridge for, say 24 hours, or microwaving it on low, I'd love to defrost it sous vide, whether or not I then decide to cook it sous vide or roast it conventionally. Any thoughts? Thanks!
I have a Foodsaver vacuum sealer and it comes with plastic rolls. I also bought additional rolls from another source. Are you saying I should not be using the Foodsaver bags to cook sous vide?
I'm interested if you've figured your HACCP plan, I'm in the same boat now,
Hi Charles,
I've gotten in the habit of re-packaging all my meat before freezing, even if it's in a nice shrink-wrapped package. I have a vacuum sealer, so I seal meat in with oil (as described in this article) and seasoning. This way, I can take it right from freezer to sous vide. It's very convenient, and I know that I'm using sous-vide safe plastic.
If I buy meat or fish already frozen, then I remove it from the packaging and re-package to sous vide, which you want to do anyway so you can add oil and seasoning. HTH.
I use 8x10 bags for most steaks and if they're extra thick or large I use 10x13.
Updated link: http://www.foodauthority.nsw.gov.au/_Documents/scienceandtechnical/sous_vide_food_safey_precautions.pdf
