Go to the Recipe: Sous Vide Barbecue Pork Shoulder
It says to cook at 140 for BBQ like texture and 158 for steak like texture I'm guessing that's inverted? What is the safe Ph again incase we want to sub water for Apple juice?
Hi ChefSteps, whats the sauce you're putting on the meat at the end of the video? I'm already in love with the hot sauce you made for smoked chicken
Fixed! Nice catch, Daniel.
Hey Sam, glad you are enjoying Nick Nasti's dip. Here's the recipe for the tangy sauce we love with this pork shoulder. http://www.chefsteps.com/activities/carolina-gold-bbq-sauce
The texture of your "barbecue" would never cut it in Tennessee. Your end result was too firm, more like a pork roast. While I understand your limitations without a smoker, there is no substitute for 2-3 hours in a smoker at 225F followed by 4-5 hours wrapped in foil in a 300F oven. Always hickory wood. Always pulled, never chopped or sliced. I've done dozens of shoulders and hundreds of rib racks like this.
I think they were going for that steak like texture. "We cook the shoulder at 140 °F / 60 °C to achieve a steak-like texture. For that fall-apart texture that makes great tacos and pulled pork, set the temperature to 158 °F / 70 °C." ITS ALL PREFERENCE BABY
That's right, Michael. Thanks for chiming in! You can definitely get a more falling-apart texture at 70 C. Either way, it really is surprisingly delicious. Hope people try it and see how it compares to traditional techniques.
Daniel, if you keep the pH above 4.8 or so, you won't have any problems with the curing salts rapidly decomposing. Apple juice would be fine. Apple vinegar not so much.
Most of our pork joints in the UK come with a thick layer of fat and skin. Any recommendations for what to do with it? At the moment I just cut it off and make crackling separately, but would be interested to hear if you've got any ideas.
Is it possible to replace smoked salt with something else? Can I use regular salt and add more liquid smoke? or is it possible to make smoked salt at home?
how many servings do we have with 4 kg shoulder?
How would final cook vary with weight of meat - pro-rata?
Hey all I'm stoked to try this out though we're only a family of two! May I ask something porcine related but not smoked butt related? I'm curing my own bacon and have read that standard cooking temp for belly of 150F makes for a less desirable mouth-feel than oven roasting at 200F. Would cooking at the temp you recommend here result in a more "bacony" chew? Also any tips on getting better infusion of smoke flavor into smokerless-bacon? I've read it's dangerous to add liquid smoke to your dry cure and I'm assuming basting while roasting (or coating while sous-vide) will just address the surface? Sorry if this is poor etiquette - this is my first post/comment.
When are we gonna see a ChefSteps Mac and Cheese recipe?
Looks wonderful. But I wonder about safety. By injecting the meat you are introducing any possible surface contamination into the core (even if not, while deboning the shoulder it's easy to introduce the knife), and a whole shoulder is usually wider than 10 cm. This means that pasteurization, or even reaching 54,4ºC at the core to start killing all bacteria, make take longer than 6 hours. Even if it is then pasteurized by the subsequent cooking, it is usually required in sous-vide safety guides than we reach the minimum pasteurizing temperature in less than 4 hours (or 6, depending on the source). I understand that the salt and suger levels provide an extra safety hurdle by reducing water activity, but still would be careful with this profile.
You can smoke salt while cooking/smoking other things on your outdoor grill. Just place the salt in a disposable container with a few small holes in it to allow the smoke to get thru.
I tried the indoor brisket before. Delicious, but after 4 hours at 125 °C the internal temp reached 80 °C. So I am wondering what's the point in cooking at such a low sous vide temperature, if it get's overcooked afterwards?
cricket: *chirp chirp*
I was literally just thinking that. Saw the mac and cheese in the picture and was like "Wheres that recipe!"
Just take their nacho cheese recipe and add pasta. or their melty cheese recipe, use more liquid and add pasta. works great
this is just my understanding of how meat fibers work. you cook it at that really low temperature for a long while to break down the collagen without drying out the meat. once you've fully cooked the meat, the purpose of putting it in the oven is to dry out the exterior of the meat and form that nice bark/crust that is associated with a smoked/bbq'd brisket. please note, they put variations to the bark forming step:
Rub brisket; roast
Apply a liberal coating of rub to the surface of the meat, and transfer to a baking rack.
Allow meat to cook for until a nice crusty bark develops, about 3–4 hours.
Let the meat cool for a few minutes before you slice into it.
TIP: If you are short on time, you can roast meat for an hour at 302 °F / 150 °C, then crank the oven up to 390 °F / 199 °C and roast again for an additional 5–10 minutes to help the bark develop.
(from <http://www.chefsteps.com/activities/smokerless-smoked-brisket >)
You do realize that they cook it at 60ºC for 24 hours, right?
Absolutelly. But safety guides recommend maximum times to reach pasteurization temperatures irrespective of the subsequent cooking time. See in Douglas Baldwin's guide (and many others): "Moreover, the center of the food should reach 130°F (54.4°C) within 6 hours to prevent the toxin producing pathogen Clostridium perfringens from multiplying to dangerous levels"
I think what he was trying to say: with the collagen broken down (or the majority at least), the muscle fibres won't contract anywhere near as much, reducing lost juices. (At least that's my take on it)
It is odd that your temp got so high though. How was it to eat?
I'm am, unfortunately, familiar with Douglas Baldwin, and as someone with a food science background, I have a problem with a lot of what he says, because a bunch of scientists tend to disagree with some of his safety tips. If you're honestly concerned with any variety after Clostridium, you need to have your food higher than than the boiling point foot several hours, because it's actually the sporulation that produce the enterotoxin. The meat butchered in this country is done so under specific guidelines to reduce the risk. Granted, this doesn't remove all risk, however, according to the FDA, when you get above the kill temperature, which is right around 55C, and hold it there above the kill temperature, according to the FDA, FSIS, several universities with fits science departments including Purdue, University of Wyoming, and Delaware Valley University, you should be OK.
I have a question about the brining: finding a container that can hold on to 8 KG of water AND 4 KG of pork shoulder might be challenging. How awful would it be if I used only 4KG of water, assuming that they still immerse the meat?
Thanks and keep up the amazing BBQ work!
It's not odd, it's the law of physics. if you put a piece of meat in a 125 temp oven, the internal temperature won't stick at 60 °C. Anyway - it was pleasant to eat, comparable to a traditionally smoked brisket. Just don't expect any fancy sous vide wow effect. Guess I will give the pork shoulder a try, but instead of baking it for hours, I quickly broil the shoulder under the grill für just a few minutes (compare chefsteps apartment ribs recipe).
Can this be made without sugar? I realize some flavor and caramelization would be lost, but would it still have a satisfactory result?
My Pork Shoulder is a bit smaller than yours. I've scaled the recipe accordingly and am curious if I also need to shorten the brine time by the same percentage.
My Pork Shoulder is about 36% the size of yours and I want to brine it traditionally. Your video says "6-7 days" for a traditional brine. Most of what I'm reading says to brine for 8-24 hours.
Should I brine for ~2 days (36%) or is it safe to brine my pork in the fridge for 6 days?
I also think I ended up adding about 10g more salt than I should have into the brine. Any harm other than slightly more salty meat? In the end for ~3380g of water I put 77.6g of salt in.
I made this for a family birthday party and it was amazing!! I went with the pulled pork texture not the steak texture. This is a lot of prep / time / work but so worth it. It sure beats trying to pull this off on a smoker. No need to babysit the shoulder while trying to keep the smoker at the right temperature.
The only thing I would modify is the amount of glaze. I had a ton left over. I would make half of what they call for.
Good job Chef Steps! Killer pork shoulder recipe.
I have a feeling it might taste saltier because the sugar isn't there to balance all the salt
Hmm i see. I guess I was hoping for Smokeless Smoked Salt (kinda going with the theme here)
Has anyone tried to using a high temp "sear" in the oven at 500 for 30min rather than a 3-4 hour cook (or even a one hour cook at 325)?
i would add liquid smoke to the brine process and inject the belly with the brine and the cook it the way they tell you to. there is a pork belly recipe n this site for a start
Made it at the higher temp, so 158 for the pulled pork texture, came out amazing. Love this and the brisket recipe. Left it in the oven to finish for about 45 min at 270, was enough for me.
I cooked it at 158, because I wanted the pulled pork texture, and it came out a little dry. When finished, the sous vide bag contained nearly a liter of liquid, which I suppose was the brine that leached out from the pork. Any idea how to keep the pork more moist? A lower temperature?
i have access to a large chamber vac and would like to improve the brine time if plausable. does anyone have experience with the brining stage for a large cut like this? vac with brine? inject with brine then vac? how long with each? (also posted on the smokerless brisket comments) --thx
In the video they are clearly not making use of 8KG of water. Is that because they are injecting the brine in the pork beforehand?
How long did you leave it in the oven for Jason?
Am I missing the brine ingredients list? What I see is a complete list of all ingredients followed by two additional lists (that have to be scrolled way down to find) that must be subtracted from the first list to get the brine. Not such a big deal if I'm making the rub and glaze right from the start, but if the meat is brining from 1 to 6 days (depending on whether injection is used) why would I pre-make the glaze and rub? What a pain in the A**
Has. Anyone had any troubled seal/vac with this recipe ....I found the moisture in the joint was sucked up to edges of bag therefore stopping the heat sealer from sealing the bag ...I decided to double bag. And this solved the problem but do not know what affect it will have with the cooking process ...also my joint was half the weight in the recipe do I still need to cook it in the sous vide for 24 hours and also do I Still need the 3to 4 hours in the oven ... Be grateful for any advice or ideas
Thanks
Cathie
Amazon, mate!
UK: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/search/keywords=polycarbonate+container
US: http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/keywords=polycarbonate+container
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you get the picture
I've seen a few complaints about it, both here and with the briskest, but can anybody explain why some cuts end up drier than others? I tried the brisket previously. I used a smaller cut and it ended up really dry with a lot of liquid in the bag. I'm going to try the pork now (also a smaller 2 kg cut), I'm just hoping it doesn't happen again and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions to avoid this. Would shorter cook times be of any benefit? I know I probably won't get a reply prior to cooking, but I'd still be interested to hear if anyone had this problem and was able to correct it.
Same here. I've made a small cut it was 1 kg before sous vide. I went for the pulled pork and set the watherbath to 70 C and 24 hours. After the sous vide process the shoulder weighed 660 grams so I've lost the 1/3 of it in juices. It was already pretty dry before I put it in the oven. The taste was really good though. Hope somebody has a fix for this. Thanks, David
Hello Ross, Momofoku restauranta has an interested recipe about de skin http://momofukufor2.com/2010/01/chicharron/
I hope you see my ansewer.
I think with a thinner cut you're going to want to crank the temp on the oven a bit higher and cook it for a shorter amount of time.
I did the brisket last year, and enjoyed the results, but man, resource intensive. I just did a pork shoulder for pulled pork on the grill, set for smoking. I think the next one is going to be done at 158*F, with dry brine of just salt before bagging, slightly different rub, then 3 hours of smoke on the grill for the barking. Thanks for the way forward. I don't always do the full project you guys put forward, but I always learn something I can use.
question: I use only kosher meats, which come brined. still recommend soaking in more salt??
Umm, may I ask where you find kosher pork?
If you're going to try this technique with something that has been pre-brined, you may wish to adjust the salt levels to your personal taste desires. I sincerely doubt there were thinking about someone using koshered meats, or really anything other than pork shoulder. If this recipe is on your bucket list, perhaps you might contact a Rabbi who deals with koshering, purchase a properly butchered piece of meat, and then brine it under the Rabbi's direction. If you're working with a pre-brined piece of meat, however, you will want to reduce the salt level.
I believe Andrea as trying to use this recipe and technique, but with a piece of meat from another animal: cow, sheep, etc, which is can be kosher. I highly doubt she was insinuating she had some Kosher pork laying around.
Don't soak with more salt. You can still use the molasses and liquid smoke, maybe just a dash of the soy, or just leave it out.
Made two mods to the recipe:
1) After the Sous Vide (36 Hr at 150F), put it in cold water for 2 Hours. Then, in the oven at 255F. Interior temperature only reached 140F.
2) Took the liter of juices from the bag, heated up until the albumin solidified (~3 min in microwave). Then poured it thru a coffee filter (takes a really long time). I used the resulting clear broth to moisten the pulled pork.
It was AWWSUM!!!
Soak the meat in the brine for 24 hours, refrigerated or unrefrigerated ?!?
Why is making the glaze the first step in this recipe, considering that you brine the pork for 24+ hours before actually glazing it?
You want the flavors to mature and develop. If you really have a problem with it, make it last.
I'd recommend the fridge.
I smoked mine for 2 hours then sous vide for 24 hours at 158......mind blowing. Served with a Korean BBQ sauce and Kimchi slaw......yeah, you're gonna want some of this!
Is this bone in or bone out?
A 48h brine is perfect here! The ratio water/salt is 3% (you can actually go all the way up to 6%). For 3380g of water you need 101.4g of salt.
You glaze it twice, once after the brine and again before the finishing rub.
I thought it was part of the brine so I added it to the brine. If its to help the flavors mature then they should specify that.
