Go to the Article: Equilibrium Brining
For fish what amount do you recommend?
Salinity level of around 1% is nice for most seafood.
At 1% how long can fish stay in brine? Can you use this technique with lobster and shrimp?
- originally posted by Scottmcgill
Yes, and they fish can stay in the brine for a long time. Indeed, the point of this technique is that there is no risk that it will become over-salted. Of course, at some point the fish will spoil.
If the size matters, how do we determine if we've reached perfect equilibrium?
Roughly a day for 1 in / 2.5 cm, 4 days for 2 in / 5 cm, 16 days for 4 in / 10 cm thick. It goes by the square of the thickness. You can also get a simple salinometer and measure the salinity of the brine. Initially it will be higher than you desired salinity, but once it reaches equilibrium it the brine will have dropped to the target salinity.
I've read some analysis (serious eats, maybe?) which suggests that though brined meats are juicier than non-brined meats, the juice is actually less flavorful as the extra moisture is just water retained by salt. Does this hold up?
Chris, I love what you guys are doing! Keep up the outstanding work. Question. - What salinity range would you suggest for game birds? Specifically duck breasts in this case. Thanks in advance for your advice. Cheers! -Ryan
- originally posted by Meatsuit
Suggest around 1.25 to 1.5%
Um is there a brining app?
Sadly no. But it's on our list of ideas.
I have for many years brined turkey in an apple cider brine, and would like to create an version using the MC equilibrium brining method. Given that the cider has 20.6 grams of sugar per liter, but no salt, my thought was to use the sugar in the cider as the source of sugar in the basic brine recipe. I typically aim for the water to be 2x the weight of the meat. I tried to solve for the amount of cider necessary to supply the correct percent of sugar, such that the sugar provided by the cider equals 0.4% of the total meat plus water plus cider weight. I determined that I should have 0.4% of total weight if my cider comprises just under 20% of the total meat plus water plus cider weight, and the combination of water plus cider is double the weight of the meat (meat = 33.33%, cider = 19.39%, water = 47.27%). I still add salt to equal 1% of the total weight. Do you see any problems using the sugar in the apple juice rather than adding it?
- originally posted by JakeZ
JakeZ — If don't see any problems with using the sugars in the cider rather than a direct addition.
MCGEE!!!http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11...
- originally posted by passion8food
When and why would the fish spoil? I would think that a whole piece of meat could last for a very long time due to the saline solution acting as a seal over the entire surface area. What am I missing? Thanks.
- originally posted by David C Williams
David — There are many bacteria that can tolerate surprisingly high concentrations of salt. So that's one problem, many of these bacteria can cause spoilage by ruining the flavor.The other problem is that the salt in the brine itself promotes the oxidation of fats, and oxidized fish fats tend to smell, well, fishy.
I LOVE those stackable clear plastic measured containers. Do you happen to know the brand name or where I can order them?
Standard Cambro containers available at restaurant supply stores across the United States (and probably many other countries around the world).
Thanks Chris, you rock. This is my new favorite cooking site. I haven't left for days.
Trying this out now for hamburgers. Starting with 1% salt, 2% sugar but will obviously need to monkey around. Lots of variables (that's what makes it fun). Anyone try this before? Curious to get a jumpstart on my experiment with help from others. Thanks... - Rick
Hey chris i am your mom and dads chef in grenada they told me of your site and what u r doing man keep it up
Thanks Kim. Wish I was geting some time in Grenada too; but there's too much to do in Seattle right now.
Thank for this lesson chefs! I have used this technique for my grilled chicken. For steak cuts such as beef sirloin, tenderloin, or rib-eye, is it possible to brine the meats first before subjecting them to aging process?
I appreciate the different brine varieties at MC 3:168 and have tried a few already. I'm wondering whether I can use an equilibrium brining version of the alkaline salt solution for sous vide buffalo wings in MCAH at 250? Assuming I'm aiming for about 1.5% salt for an equilibrium brine solution, can I just scale the baking soda similarly?
- originally posted by Jake
So, I'm going to grill some chicken for guests today. I've spatchcocked a chicken, poured a 1% equilibrium brine in there (actually 1% salt 0.5% brown sugar) and vacuum packed it. I'm wondering if I can then put it directly into the sous vide bath, say at ~149F, for a few hours, then take it out and throw it on the grill to finish it off? Or, will it somehow be too much? It would be kind of take on your poached chicken recipe, which used stock, which I assume is 1% or higher anyway. I'm tempted ..
You can go straight to the sous vide bath, and then go straight to grill.
Is it possible to brine with a medium other than water, such as beer?
brine is a salt water solution.. so to answer your question.. NO you cannot use beer to "brine"...if you use anything other than brine (salt water solution) then you are using a marinade.
- originally posted by Chef Shane
After reading some of the questions here at the site, it is clear that some people are home cooks with very little understanding of basic brining and pickling fundamentals, all of which is easilly explained in a few wikipedia articles.What is brine?Brine is a solution of salt and liquid, usually water. So if it does not have salt, then it is NOT a brine.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B...Is cider a brine?If the cider does not have salt then it is NOT a brine solution, and therefore you are only pickling.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...If I add salt to a liquid, then is that a brine solution?YES.. a salt liquid solution is a brine solution... and depending on the acidity of the liquid may also be a pickling solution.brine is a type of pickling solution, but a pickling solution is NOT always a brine.this is similar to the fact that cognac is a brandy, but not all brandy is cognacor... all bourbon is a whisky, but not all whisky is bourbon
Cheers guys, thanks for work on the videos and information.
A question regarding the weights and percentages. Is the starting weight we are given for the brined pork before or after the brine?
Im interested in how much weight the pork loin gains in the brine (if any) before the cooking starts.
Cheers again
Starting weight is for the pork before the brine. A gain of up to 10% is not uncommon.
Does this work for pickling ? I use Ruhlman 20:1 ratio... is this much different?
It does work for pickling in theory but with pickling you want want a much deeper concentration, but even then the product is usually left in brine indefinitely = equilibrium. Pickles go in a jar of high strength brine and by the time they are consumed the pickle and the brine are at equilibrium.
Is there any reason that you cannot speed up the process by injecting the meat with the equilibrium brine?
how would you know how long it would take to equilibriate? for example, if i were to brine a 15lb turkey...how long should it be in the brine for it to reach equilibrium?
Would this work for buttermilk and fried chicken? Say I leave chicken in buttermilk mixed with your % of salt for 48 hours, too much? would it be TOO tangy from the buttermilk? Thanks in advance.
I found some interesting info on this and it appears you need a whole many days to reach full equilibrium. What are your thoughts. http://www.genuineideas.com/ArticlesIndex/diffusion.html
and.. http://www.genuineideas.com/ArticlesIndex/brine.html
What about a veal tenderloin? Would it take any benefit from equilibrium brine?
Just to be more clear about "salt," brine always contains *a* salt, not just Sodium Chloride. For example, Maraschino cherries are soaked in a brine containing Calcium Chloride. The end result of using a brine does not have to be -- and often isn't -- imparting saltiness to the food. This is such a great site, and you guys are awesome. Keep up the great work!
how much time it has to stay in the bath??
Is it possible to speed up the process of brining by using a vacuum sealer? And if it's possible how (time, amount of brain etc.)?
Hey ChefSteps team! Quick question, I'm thinking of using soy sauce to do an equilibrium brine. I understand that Soy Sauce is roughly 20% sodium so would that mean that I would simply multiply the Soy Sauce (in grams) required by 5 from the amount of salt (in grams) required?
So for example:
For a 4% Salt Brine I'd take "Weight of (Meat + Water) * 0.04 = Weight of Salt required)"
If I wanted to replace the salt with 20% sodium soy then would it essentially be Weight of Salt * 5?
Will your brine (before you add raw meat) have a taste similar to your final product? I would assume so because the levels of salinity are equal. (The fate of my Sunday dinner rests on that assumption because I just put it in a brine that tastes like what I want to eat on Sunday)
I like the answer. I have been doing some pickling (simple) & playing with the salt content. In most recipes I can reduce the amount of salt by a .25% & have a satisfactory product.
I brine Salmon (2.6 lbs) for 2 hours & then cold smoke for an 70 minutes. Smoke flavor was very light (not enough wood); but the Salmon was almost buttery in texture & taste.
Thanks
Vacuum sealing it would not speed things up, just ensure the meat was in constant contact with the brine solution.
If the weight of the bone should be subtracted, I looked for a weight for Turkey bone and found an interesting table out of Meat Science and Application. The table shows 17% bone for Turkey but uses live weight. To get to a dressed weight, I suppose you would have to add back in the non-carcass percentage, which the table shows is 18%. So for a 10 lb. dressed turkey, you would add back in the non-carcass weight, which should give you a live weight of 11.8 lb., which means you have 2.00 1lbs. of bone for a net of 8 lbs. of meat. I'm no mathematician, and I've seen rough estimates of a higher ratio of bone to meat, so someone needs to check my methodology.
why wouldn't it speed it up? my understanding is that it would, but i am by no means an expert. especially with a chamber vac.
i have access to a large chamber vac and would like to improve the brine time if possible, but a comment below suggests that it would not. does anyone have experience with the brining stage for a large cut like this? vac with brine? inject with brine then vac? how long with each? (also posted on the smokerless brisket comments) --thx
Hello everybody, Qick question. Would this brine work for a piece of meat such a whole bone-in ham hock or is it more beneficial for leaner cuts such as a tenderloin?
You've got it switched up - great for ham, not really suited for a tenderloin.
The acid in the buttermilk isn't good if left too long. The meat will start to get quite mushy over that time frame.
What a chamber style vacuum sealer does will compress the liquid around the outside of the food. this will rapidly infuse flavors (like a marinade) below the surface, but, just like traditional marinading, it will only penetrate so far: tests have shown that marinades only penetrate about 3.2 mm below the surface. Because salt is a much smaller molecule, and through the process of osmosis, it will penetrate much deeper, but to really speed up the penetration, you would need to expose the both the meat and brine to tremendous pressures (well over 100 psi, and there are still debates about how effective this is) or via injection, which is when you mechanically inject the brine into the muscle tissue using a syringe or a high pressure fluid jet.
A large cut like what? What a chamber style vacuum sealer does will compress the liquid around the outside of the food. this will rapidly infuse flavors (like a marinade) below the surface, but, just like traditional marinading, it will only penetrate so far: tests have shown that marinades only penetrate about 3.2 mm below the surface. Because salt is a much smaller molecule, and through the process of osmosis, it will penetrate much deeper, but to really speed up the penetration, you would need to expose the both the meat and brine to tremendous pressures (well over 100 psi, and there are still debates about how effective this is) or via injection, which is when you mechanically inject the brine into the muscle tissue using a syringe or a high pressure fluid jet.
I get great results when I brine a tenderloin. It comes out significantly more juicy than if just cooked as is and let to rest. Not only that, but, in the video at the top, ChefSteps are equilibrium brining a tenderloin (39 seconds into the video it displays at the bottom of the screen).
I think the confusion here is Brian is speaking of a PORK tenderloin and not a beef tenderloin
