Go to the Recipe: Umami-Bomb Vegetarian Demi-Glace
Try hing or Asafoetida. In very low quantity and roast it just before the spices. Make sure you are buying a real hing or you might get wheat flour with some hing in it.
A little late to reply, but: If I'm reading this correctly, the ratio of dry ingredients meaning xanthan, pectin, salt, and msg? If that's correct, it wouldn't be the percentage of dry ingredients to strained liquid but percentage of dry ingredients to final liquid. Although the recipe says to reduce it by half after strained, it really needs to be reduced to 400g, which is what the total "yield" at the top is under the ingredients list. So that means, of the final liquid/yield: xanthan is 0.1%, pectin is 0.5%, salt is 1%, msg is 0.75%. I would say that the amount of strained liquid depends on a few things...a) how much of the water evaporates during the 30-40 minutes the dry ingredients are steeping in the water; b) how much liquid the vegetables absorb during the steeping time - sliced a little thinner on the mandolin and they won't absorb a lot, a little thicker and they'll take a little more; c) how much liquid is pressed out when strained. I've done this recipe a few times and the volume of my strained liquid has been all over the place. I always just focus on final yield.
You can check out this spreadsheet I put together.... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Vf4mJNPNzajwwf3thxas3DCv05Odr07R6PVQV-uoK5Q/edit?usp=sharing
Unctuous just sounds disgusting, but I feel while xanthan gum is good, it is also an incomplete solution. This is also probably why pectin is part of the answer.
You need to create depth and body which means an emulsions(one or more hydrocolloids) of some kind plus layers to that texture(technique). In the case of mapo tofu and similar stir fry's, a technique called "brightening oil" is used; this is where you add a seasoning oil, like green onion or chili oil, after thickening with corn/tapioca starch. This oil is intentionally not fully emulsified by adding just before plating with minimal stirring. This gives a nice shine plus a more fatty texture to the sauce.
Look up Wang Gang for more Chinese cooking info. But you will need to experiment for a holistic solution.
I've been trying to figure out how to get regular veg stock to have the unctuous quality of good meat stock - for example, in a mapo tofu, which just doesn't have the right texture when I make it vegetarian. Looks like Xanthan gum is worth trying?
Asafoetida is used in India as a substitute for onion and garlic. It's a ground spice...I'm guessing you want to add it with the other dry ingredients at the end.
Hello Everyone,
Unfortunately we have 2 people with severe Alium allergies so I need to leave out onions and garlic. Does anyone have ideas for substitutions? I want to make it for christmas trying do start with some trial runs.
What are the actual % ratios of dry ingredients to strained liquid here?
You will want to add the thickeners after straining. Reduce by half. Whisk them in and bring to the boil. The amount of liquid you thicken here is the key and depends on how much the roasted veggies absorbed and how much moisture evaporated on the second roast and how much you reduce. Add more pectin and xanthan to bring to desired thickness. A note would be to wait and season at the end after you find the thickness preferred.
Do the thickeners need to be added when near-boiling, or boiled? Or left to thicken overnight? I’ve already added much more powdered pectin and xanthan than called for, and my demi is shiny, but no one in the world would call it “thick and sticky.”
Hi Ian, for this we stick to 0% humidity.
This is a great idea. I've just got my ANOVA Culinary combi oven. When you are browning the vegetables, are you doing so a 0% humidity set point? That makes sense to me. I also have access to a Rational Combi at work. So 0%, 100% fan and 275F set point?
Thanks Mom!
mmm😋🥰
Still one of my all time favorite recipes... try it.
The veggies that you strain out are actually still very delicious! We baked them into a macaroni casserole with much success
Love your Darto Pan (from Argentina!) I have a few. Sale on them right now - half price to USA!
This recipe for demi is a wonderful application for veggies - thank you! I like to reduce my stocks down to a small amount, cool in a small bowl till firm, and then bag and freeze the disk till needed. Takes up minimal space in the freezer.
It is the double roasting in this recipe that gives its rich color and flavor. You could choose to dry veggies out it just wont be as dark. The less moisture in the vegetable the easier it will be to toast and burn especially with the oil.
What if you shaved veggies and then partially dry them in a food dryer, then toss with oil and bake to roast down. Temps could stay low so no burning of edges and then finish as per recipe?
I used this recipe to create a base stock for my Thanksgiving gravy, avoiding the thickening agents, as they were not necessary. Decided to comment because of all the other comments on time and temp. It's clear the recommended temp is to avoid burning. Higher temp and you'll end up with an acrid flavour. Time, this took me 5 hours. As mentioned below it takes hours just to steam the veg. Removing the water from the veg before it can brown is not something you can rush. They really should be more honest in the recipe. This had me up late the night before and I wasn't happy about that, but the result is definitely worth it. I will be using this recipe again, but I'll be planning ahead next time to allow for the full 5 hours it takes. Also, saved some for future use, ended up with this as a base for a parsley and lemon sauce and it added a lot of depth. Really multi-purpose and great for every day use to create killer sauces quickly.
I used this recipe and multiplied the ingredients by 10, used dried porcinis instead of shitakes and added 25 gallons of water, to make a stock not a demi. Instead of shaving the vegetables, I roughly chopped them and pulsed them in a Robocoup until minced, saved a lot of time. Like everyone else said, 300 is too low. I started at 300 in a convection oven and gradually ended up at 500 until I realized I could've just popped them in a wood fired oven at 1000 and been done with this in 5 minutes. So, if you work in a restaurant, go high and fast or low and slow and forget it. Couldn't believe how dark the stock was for putting 25 GALLONS of water in. Reduced down to 18 gallons and had the best vegan ramen of my life.
How did the recipe turn out with the modifications you mentioned? Any significant change in flavor with the fewer tannins?
Burnt is the big complication in making this or stuff. To avoid it you need to confront it head on. Burnt means too much heat. If you put a hodge-podge of veggie chunks in a pan some will cook quickly some slowly. The quick ones will burn. When I do this ( and I'm no pro ) I avoid brassicas as they burn so easily and veggies that are near all water like cucumber. The last batch I made I used sweet onions, leeks, carrots, celery, cherry tomatoes, a few beefsteak tomatoes ( flesh only ), mushrooms, turnips, parsnips, zucchini ( de-seeded ) and asparagus shafts. I did roast them but they were chopped into 1/4 inch chunks and spread out in a roasting pan. As they browned on top I turned the veggies until they were all brown but not black. After that I did much as the above vid shows.
It works at 300 if you do it long enough. I think the point of the low temp is to brown and no burn the vegetables. The image is this demonstration is a bit to black for me. You can do this thing stove-top ( with a little help from the oven ) if you choose. To do that put a bunch of sweet onions into a dutch oven ( enamel interior ) olive oil and caramelize the ever loven crap out of them. To do this you must stay at the pan. Have a glass of water and a spatula ready. As the pan picks up brown bits deglaze it with a small amount of the water and keep doing this until you have a thick dark sweet smelling slop in the roaster. Take all your other vegetables and chop them in a blander or a processor to 1/4 in chunks. mix this up and add olive oil. Spread it out on a baking tray and roast at 300 or 350 until light brown and dry while turning the mash over every 10 minuets or so to expose the un-carmalized parts to the heat. when done put the mash in the dutch over ( onions set aside ) and brown the crap out of them as you did the onions. When done you should have a batch of deep brown ( not black ) onions and another of veggies. mix it all together and let sit 4 or 5 hours. Add a couple liters of water and simmer for 5 hours or so keeping the water tipped up. At this point you decide what kind if glace you want. You can add kombu or MSG ( ummami ), cognac ( classic style ) , star anise ( richens savory flavors and adds a hint of licorice) or other items. I use tomatoes in my mash so I don't add the paste but I would if I did not have it already in the prep. Red wine..sherry..all the stuff used in other demi glaces is on the list if you like.
After a long simmer strain and de-fat. I use very fine industrial SS meshes to strain. 20 microns or less and sometimes less that 1 micron. That will clarify the glace and give it a bright appearance but a kitchen strainer ( fine ) or chinois will do. Now reduce. You want ALL the fat out of this or it will be hazy. So at about half way down in the reduction take it off heat and put it in an open pan or pot and chill it in the fridge. Lift off the hardened fat and go back to your reduction. When done you should have a deep brown, near black sauce that is sans a char taste, rich and somewhat sweet. I have no idea why you would use xanthan or pectin in this stuff ( it's pretty thick as it is ) but the ChefSteps guys are pros so Ill defer to their judgment. I don't use it.
By using the oven at low temp and then moving most of the work to the stove -top you'll get good control of the browning. By mashing up the veggies you don't have sharp edges and points to char when you roast. Brown is good..black is bad so the pro's say.
This as a broth is the SHIT. i use it for everything.
Convection or regular oven?
You can't sub one for the other
I agree. I did it at 300 degrees and it took me a good 3 hrs. plus. Next time I’ll do it at 500
I have xanthan gum but I don't have pectin. How much xanthan can i use to replace it?
I think the oven temp in the recipe is wrong. Note all of the comments below saying how much longer it takes to roast the vegetables. There is no way to get a good roast at 300 degrees.... you will be basically steaming them and then browning towards the end when they are dehydrated. I did this recipe at 500 degrees instead and the results are much closer to the recipe description with nice browning and carmelization.
This seems soo easy and relatively quick until I tried it out. I was so excited up until just now when I tasted it and found it was burnt. First off, it too more than 40 minutes to dehydrate all the veggies. It steamed for the first two hours. I had work in the early morning and didn't expect for it to take this long. I even put them on separate trays. When it finally looked like your dehydrated veggies I added water and put in in the oven, took it out strained it , began to reduce it and it just didn't taste good. I hate making demi in all of its forms.
So the time's that they give are off. I did this in recipe in the restaurant kitchen I work in and it took nearly 3 hours. I went with a sheet pan instead of hotel pan to help speed up the browning process. It helped but not by much. I feel like the eggplant, broccoli and cauliflower should be omitted and just stick with aromatic vegetables. It wont be so tannic and bitter.
This is definitely worth the time, the resulting demi is very intense and "meaty". Be forewarned that unless you "shave" the veggies paper thin on a mandolin or with a peeler (the later will take forever) figure on at least 2 1/2 plus hours in a 300 oven. Also, use a big hotel pan so the veggies roast nicely don't sweat. Not sure where they came up with the timings they suggest, but don't go by time - go by the way they should look when carmelized. I also find you should take care to reduce the product well (by half) before thickening, as the amounts of pectin and xanthin are calculated for the amount of reduced liquid. Other than that, the suggested vegetable combinations are good. Make it the way they suggest for the first go, then experiment on your own. It will help you control your unknowns. The process makes the kitchen smell lovely.
Hello. Can I replace than the onions and mushrooms? And whether it is possible to use other vegetables such as zucchini and bell pepper?
Yay! And it's vegan! I can't wait to try this!
My daughter is allergic to eggplant. Any suggestions what vegetable I could replace this with?
I just used it as a base for my curry. Didnt thicken it, didnt use pectin and IT TASTES INSANE! Sooooooooo goooooooood. Thank you so much for this.
Made this again today and reduced the quantities a lot, and as I suspected, the cooking time came right down. So yeah, if you're finding this takes a very long time to cook, you might just be trying to do it in too large a batch for your cookware/oven.
This became a staple at my workplace! We use it in all kinds of soups, sauces, vegetables, etc. It is really delicious and can really trick any meat eater into thinking there is meat in it.
Great recipe! I added a couple of Rosemary branches after i thickened the demi, tasted absolutely amazing. But it took almost 3 hours in the oven till the vegetables where dark enough.
Can I freeze this?
Yep, about 2.5hrs before the pan is in the ballpark. I add the 2.5l of water and it's pretty much full to the brim - definitely substantially smaller than your pan...
Like others, I've just hit the 45min mark on the initial roast and it's clearly got a while to go.
I'm thinking: I've used the same quantities as you, but rather than a hotel pan, I've just used a standard roasting dish - which, by the looks of it, is quite a bit smaller. So the veggies are more 'heaped' - they came close to spilling over the side of the pan when I was filling it - and as such it's going to take longer for the heat to penetrate and for all the vegetables to cook through. And even the veggies on top are not done after 45mins because there's still so much moisture in the layers below that they just don't dry out properly. Sound plausible?
If I'm right, then I should be able to get a shorter roasting time by just scaling down the quantities of everything.
Also, it looks like you have savory-to-sweet vegetables at a ratio of about 4 to 1, by mass. If I'm just grabbing random vegetables to use for this, is that the right way to approach balancing it out, or do I have to get more in depth with the actual sugar content of things?
Maybe the eggplant skin? Sometimes they can get sour when cooked.
I've been using the term "Umami Bomb" for a few years. And when I was talking with my good friend who works as a chef about these techniques (deep roasting, mushrooms, etc...) he mentioned that he'd been using the term for a while too. When a dish in the restaurant was missing a little something but lack of time to refine it, they'd say "Screw it, just umami bomb it." It's a great term!
Ok I tried this today after reading the recipe almost all of the comments. The color is good. Could be better if we roasted the veggies in the beginning at a higher heat. By its self I thought it was a bit sour. tried it on roasted veggies pretty interesting in a good way. Baked a Golden potato & put the demi-glace on it. Really quite good. Didn't achieve the syrup consistency. My scale doesn't register hundredths. Veggies were fresh today wonder what made it a it sour?
Hi ken!
Does this freeze well/
How long will it hold in fridge??
Hi Sam, gelatin would definitely work. We omitted gelatin originally to allow this recipe to be entirely vegetarian. Nick recommends adding a few sheets of gelatin to start with, making sure it's fully incorporated and making sure you're testing the viscosity of it at the desired temp for consumption. Add one at a time until you find a consistency you like!
If you can't find pectin and xanthm gum, what can you use as substitutes? Would unflavored gelatin work? If so, how much?
Soo... last year when this demi was originally posted as "R&D V4", I tried my hand at my own version of it. I added some things, changed some things, and made a post in the forums. "Umami Bomb" was the name I gave to my version... just saying. I know the concept wasn't completely original, but my recipe most certainly is unique (not to mention the name). I love this site, but I'm having a "WTF" moment. https://www.chefsteps.com/forum/posts/umami-bomb-4
