Go to the Recipe: Amazing Chewy Bagels From Scratch
This looks wonderful and I look forward to trying the recipe. Without having made them but watching the video (3:15), it appears that the texture is more similar to a modern softer bagel. Do you have any suggestions for those of us who prefer a more traditional chewier (even tougher) bagel? That style has sadly become harder to find commercially.
Pretty similar to the bagel dough recipe I use except I have never tried adding baking soda to my boiling water mixture. Sorry if it's a stupid question, but what is the purpose of the baking soda during boiling?
Very cool, I make similar but with starter. And I concentrate baking soda in oven.
I suspect it's similar to what's done with pretzels--the alkalinity in the water accelerates a the maillard reaction on the parts of the bagel which have touched the baking soda when they are baked, giving you more intense flavor instead of blonde-ish bagels.
Not a stupid question at all - I too look forward to the answer. If I has to guess, I'd say it was to help increase the p h the , (ie decrease acidity) in order to improve browning of the bagel crust?
The texture is actually pretty chewy, Reub! They're a hybrid between New York and Montreal styles, with a chewy exterior and a fluffy—but still firm—interior. They're also pretty small, so the chewy exterior is really the dominant texture.
The baking soda is a base which accelerates the Maillard reaction, and the deep-brown crust and distictive flavour of traditional bagels develop from this alkaline soak. Food-grade lye has been the preferred method, but baking soda can be a decent, if imperfect, stand-in. If you bake the baking soda first to increase the alkalinity, you can boost this process considerably. Harold McGee wrote on this in the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/15/dining/15curious.html
God I swear ChefSteps, I'm really loving videos like this one and the pistachio butter one. I've learned sooooooo much from being a member on this site the past year. I love it all. I love it all.
BOOM, nice work Eddie. Nailed that answer like a boss!
Sorry, he lost me at his forming/shaping/rolling technique (watch at 3:50) technique
Michael! Thank you so much! We love hearing this!
Would food grade lye work for the boil?
I use lye for pretzels. It creates a darker, chewier crust.
What is going on with the video quality lately? Really (chef)stepping it up big times! A piece of art!
Did you ever consider adding a additional sourdough starter to your baked goods? I've been doing so lately and was really pleased by the results, it adds so much more flavour!
Just so happens that we were talking about making bagels at home day before yesterday! It's just me and my husband at home, so how do you think taking the process to the boil, then freezing would work out? That way we could bake 4 at a time and have really fresh bagels.
Would also probably go the lye route - I have lots of food grade lye around (I make soap). I found that when making pretzels, lye is better than even baked baking soda at getting that distinctive flavor.
I know people are a bit intimidated by using lye, but look at it this way - it's not really any more dangerous than making a dark roux! Same rules apply - be careful, be safe.
I've been wanting ChefSteps to weigh in on more common bread products for a while - I'm so pumped for this!
Thanks Karen... Its that chewy exterior I want, so making a smaller bagel must be the key. I'm a big fan of the Montreal style of bagel, and have been experimenting in my kitchen. Here in San Francisco, there are bakers flirting with the NY style, but I'm anxious to try this recipe if it produces a hybrid of the two.
YES! thank you very much
I love the taste of a great Montreal bagel straight out of a wood fired oven. I've planned to make bagels on my BGE some weekend for a while - but for something quicker (and less cold now that winter is upon us), I was wondering if you've tried brushing the dough with a little liquid smoke - perhaps in the boiling water or maybe smoking the dough and/or sea salt with the smoking gun?
The baking soda in the boil water is alkaline enough to do what the lye does, but a bit safer because it's not so caustic. The boiling makes the baking soda effective enough.
I'm building out a whole new pantry cause of you guys. Any substitutes for the Malt Syrup? Can you make Malt Syrup from Sugar water and Malt Powder?
It seems like you can substitute molasses or honey 1-for-1. Maybe even a 50/50 blend of molasses and honey would work better?
hello, why do you put baking soda on water?? what reaction occurs there??
I must make these!
These look amazing!
How long will these last in a sealed container? Also, if I wanted to freeze them for future baking, at what step should I freeze them?
Thank you very much for the recipe, I'm gonna try it this weekend but I have a question. since Diastatic malt powder contains amylase, can I use amylase powder directly or not? if yes, should i use the same amount or different amount of it? Also what can I substitute Malt syrup with?
Thanks
If Food Lab and Chefsteps have taught me correctly, the baking soda should raise the pH of the bread, or at least the exterior of it, which is good because the maillard reaction (browning/making things crusty, like searing a steak) occurs at a faster rate at higher pH. So basically, it makes the outside of the bagel brown better in the oven. Hope that helps
You mean like the "baked baking soda" thing that David Chang does for his alkaline ramen noodles recipe?
I have non diastatic malt powder that I have used in the past to boil the bagels once they are prepped and proofed. Can I use this instead of the malt syrup and if so, in what proportions.
According to Epicurious (http://www.epicurious.com/archive/howtocook/primers/bagels-ingredients-and-tools): "You can use an equal amount of brown rice syrup, honey, or agave syrup in place of barley malt syrup; or substitute powdered or crystallized malt powder (use 1 teaspoon powder for 1 tablespoon syrup).
Barley malt syrup is available at most supermarkets, but if you can't find it, use brown rice syrup, honey, or agave. Though these are not traditionally used in bagel making, they are completely acceptable substitutions. Some people even prefer the flavor of honey or agave to barley malt, especially fans of Montreal-style bagels, which are boiled in honey-sweetened water."
Other forums online suggest using molasses. Hopefully one of those will work!
Why the extra 30-40 min proof before putting them in fridge overnight, surly, the bagels would proof overnight?
I'm expecting an awesome Nova LOX liquid smoke recipe soon!!
They wouldn't proof in the fridge. Yeast stops working at low temperatures and greatly reduces its activity below 20C.
They lose the crunch quickly, but they are good for 3 days at least. If you put them in a toaster, more than a week.
Yeah, that way is much quicker and appropriate for mass hand production. But the Chefsteps tutorial gets much prettier results.
Concerning the Amylase to Diastatic Malt Powder ratio, it is 1:50 according to chefstep wiki https://www.chefsteps.com/ingredients/diastatic-malt-powder
Thanks Karen - can't wait to sink my teeth into one.
Gwen, while it will accelerate the Malliard reaction the same way lye does, I don't find that baking soda gives the crust the same flavor. Just my opinion, though.
Ahhh, I remember in this house when bagels filled with smoked salmon and cream cheese were served for breakfast (in the times of making an effort!). Then, it was all shop-bought. 18 years later, we make the cream cheese, cure and cold smoke the salmon and now we can make the bagels! Love CS XXX
Hey guys, can I use sprouted whole grain wheat flour in place of diastatic malt powder? I did some research about the processes of creating both, and they seem pretty much identical, besides the fact that DMP is usually made with barley. Peter Reinhart mentions being able to use them interchangeably in his book "Peter Reinhart's Whole Grain Breads: New Techniques, Extraordinary Flavor," but I just wanted to know what you guys thought. I ask because I already have a bag of that, haha
thanks!
I have wondered the same thing, and as Lucas Willett has expressed, perhaps 50/50 molassas and honey would work. But the malt brings flavor and adds a new dimension to the water, so your question about the malt powder mixed with the molassas/honey seems reasonable. Would like ChefSteps to weigh-in here with their thoughts.
I was wondering about freezing these as well. I was going to try it after the boil because it is most convenient to only do that once. I'll see how it turns out.
THX!!
Hi Steve, definitely!
We have tried it and we loved it! Great call here!
Hi Robin, you could absolutely boil and then freeze!
So glad to hear it, Lucas!
Hi Daniel, we haven't given that a try! If you experiment with that method please let us know how it goes!
Hi Alex, ha! We hope that's mostly a good thing! We haven't tried this but malt syrup should be fairly accessible. Please let us know how it goes if you try it!
That's the reaction we're going for here!
Hi Sabrina! We're so glad you think so! You can freeze them after boiling and they should keep well for up to six months. You can remove and finish the process in batches as needed!
Hi Judy, we don't recommend that as a substitution but thanks for checking!
Hey Saif! Interesting! We haven't tried this but would love to know how it goes if you do!
Just stuck em in the fridge for the overnight rest, I'll let you know in the morning
Hi I was wondering if you could substitute half of the bread flour for whole wheat pastry flour? Or if using all whole wheat flour, would adding vital wheat gluten aid in texture?
I would not recommend the substitution, malt syrup really is needed for that traditional experience. You can easily get Malty Syrup on Amazon : http://www.amazon.com/EDEN-ORGANIC-BARLEY-MALT-SYRUP/dp/B00NIO5YZ6/ref=sr11?ie=UTF8&qid=1452323525&sr=8-1&keywords=malt+syrup
hmmmmm....... I wonder just how awesome the bagels will turn out when I substitute Kansai alkaline alts for Baking Soda. Ramen noodle flavored bagels anyone?
Turned out great! Thanks for the inspiration.
Done! They're really good But since I've never used DMP, I'm not sure if the sprouted wheat flour worked exactly the same, haha. It rose well, had great texture, and browned perfectly. My dough ended up a little dry, which I think explains the slightly dense crumb, so maybe next time it'll be perfect. Definitely making another batch soon.
Done! They're really good But since I've never used DMP, I'm not sure if the sprouted wheat flour worked exactly the same, haha. It rose well, had great texture, and browned perfectly.
My dough ended up a teeny bit dry, which I think explains the slightly dense crumb, so maybe next time it'll be perfect. Definitely making another batch soon.
Yes, 250F oven for and hour. Makes big difference in outer texture and browning.
Second what @Dave Martin said
They'll prove fine in the fridge, you just might have to give them a bit longer than the recipe suggests (although unless you take "overnight" to mean "do this at 11pm and bake at 6am" I suspect you'll be ok). All my bread baking is done with a final proving in the fridge for 12-24h.
Gorgeous!!
Yummm
These were gone way too quickly. Great recipe!
After the overnight proof, should i let them get to room temperature ? or should i place it in boiling water right of the fridge ?
You can boil right from the fridge!
Just made these for my daughter's pre-school snack day. They were a hit! Can't wait to make these again.
Awesome, so glad to hear it!
We boiled and froze some of them. They turned out great after the freeze too!
Followed the exact measurements for everything. My sponge looked exactly as in the video, but my dough was too dry and never came together. The picture was after about 20 minutes of mixing. as you can see in the picture. Any thoughts on what could have gone wrong?
Perhaps you added the flour too quickly early on? The dough might not have had a chance to hydrate as you went.
Not just that; in the case of bagels, boiling them in alkalinized water gelates the starches on the surface, giving them the slightly thicker, crunchy crust. Commercial bagel bakeries often use food-grade lye (you should use special safety equipment to work with highly-concentrated lye; even if you can get it, it's not recommended for home use).
Any suggestions for making cinnamon-raisin bagels? I don't care for everything bagels (though my husbamd does, so I might make a half-batch for him).
Add a little water, about a teaspoon at a time until it comes together. Keep mixing and give each additional teaspoon of water time to work into the dough. It will come together. Depending on your humidity and the moisture content of your flour is how much you will add. Then you will keep kneading your dough for 10-15 more minutes to develop the gluten. The dough will become smooth and very elastic. I am in the process of making some now and had the same issue. I find that in the Winter my flour is dryer and requires a bit more water, usually two or three teaspoons.
The yeast won't stop working completely - long cold rises are very common for flavorful breads. But if you don't do the 40 minute proof before you put them in the fridge, you should do it when you take them out - let them come up to room temperature, then wait 30-40 minutes. It saves that warming-up time to proof them before refrigerating, though.
Things that i would look for, cinnamon slows down the yeast fermenting and when you rehydrate raisins, you will be adding moisture. This is also a very stiff dough, my poor kitchen aid gives off the saddest sound mixing this recipe but it’s well worth it. My recommendation would be to plump up raisins in cinnamon water and kneed them in by hand after the 20 min rest after step 2, You will be adding moisture so you made to add flour, once incorporated I would let rest again. You may need to add more proofing time. If you add cinnamon to flour mixture, i would definitely give it more time to proof. That’s how I would approach it. Anyone Else?
Thanks John, wish I had this advice before I threw out the dough. I'm trying it again this coming weekend in hopes of getting these awesome looking bagels to work!
Why not? DME (dry malt extract, which is non-diastatic malt powder) is the same thing as LME (liquid malt extract, which is malt syrup). The usage ratio is not 1:1 because the syrup has moisture weight, it's 1:1.25 dry to liquid. But non-diastatic dry malt extract and malt syrup (liquid malt extract) are otherwise identical.
Now. DIASTATIC malt powder is a whole other kettle of fish! But that's not what we're talking about here.
Should be the same. DMP is sprouted barley (for the most part), but the key here is not barley vs wheat, it's that you've got live enzymes for breakdown of the relatively more complex carbohydrates into simpler ones (sugars, including maltose). Those are more fermentable to the yeast. Sure there will be some small differences in flavor and texture between wheat and barley, but in these quantities as a % of the whole, they're immaterial.
Molasses worked great!
