Go to the Recipe: Sous Vide Char Siu (Chinese Barbecue Pork)
I believe traditional Char Siu uses Sodium Nitrate to give it the red hue. Even though modern techniques typically use red food colouring instead, is there a way to incorporate curing salt into this recipe to give it a bit of that colour?
The recipe says "Char Siu: better when made by you", but there are no instructions on how to make the sauce ourselves. Would you please add those instructions?
Juan-Carlos
The red color comes from chinese red fermented bean curd, curing salt isn't used to make char siu.
In their recipe, they recommend you use a store bought char sui sauce. Here is a recipe from the folks over at amazingrib.com. they do really good stuff, and have collaborated with chefsteps a couple times. Hope that helps.
PS. (in the introduction) "We tend to mix up our own marinades in the ChefSteps kitchen, but we were such fans of the results we got with Lee Kum Kee’s Char Siu Sauce (available on Amazon) that we decided a little shortcut was in order."
The recipe says 55°C for 8 hours. that does seem realy low for pork also from what i know, pasteurization doesn't occur until above 57°C so wouldn't that just be breeding pathogens? it does match the Fahrenheit temp so it doesn't seem to be a conversion error. could you please elaborate on that? Also i don't have agrill, but i do have a PS smoking gun. Any ideas on how to best use it? I was thinking of hitting it with smoke a couple times before cooking. Or would this give to strong a flavor? maybe after?
Cheers, Harm
I'm hungry
There's some really good information on that here. As for the cooking, I'd finish it first, then expose it to the smoke. I find that smoke from a smoking gun imparts a rather mild flavor as opposed to that deep matured flavor from a smoker/grill. That's just my opinion though. Good luck!
I have a jar of the recommended product in my refrigerator. Five spice seems to be the dominant flavor. I've had better luck with making a marinade myself. I'd suggest mixing ingredients that seem to make sense until you find something that is recognizable. The hot sauce in the linked recipe seems out of place.
I would have to disagree. My grandfathers recipe calls for saltpeter. (potassium nitrate) I've since switched to instacure #1 and just follow the normal guidelines.
Growing up in Asia we were always made aware of the use of saltpeter (or sodium nitrate) in char siu. Many traditional recipes still call for it as well. As far as I know, ingredients such as fermented bean curd and food colouring was introduced as the general public became more concerned with the health effects of sodium nitrate.
If you're worried about pasteurizing meat you need have no fear. For the most part heat and time are in reciprocity when you're doing that. Higher temp shorter time and vice versa. 8 hours at 55 C will certainly do it. There's also the fact pork sold in most first world locations doesn't require much in the way of sterilization.
Surface organisms won't survive the sear at the end.
Yes i know that pasteurization is a function of both time and temperature. That was more of an aside. Still 55C is really low for pork in terms of doneness and they sneakily changed it to 60C since i posted that, so i think i had a point
I feel like I finally have something to give back to ChefSteps and the community. I make Char Siu regularly, and also cook it sous vide, but you are missing two very important ingredients that I think most people would agree will add a lot to the dish.
Other than their Oyster Sauce -- which is the Heinz of the genre -- I'm not crazy about Lee Kum Kee products, and especially not crazy about their Char Siu sauce. There are lots of recipes on the web (the one on RasaMalaysia is good) that are easy to make your own marinade, but don't use a recipe which doesn't include 1) red fermented bean curd, and 2) maltose. These are critical for authentic char siu, and you can get either of these in any Chinese grocery store virtually anywhere in the world (I can even find them here in Rio de Janeiro and in any major city in South America (or any small city in North America)). The red fermented bean curd will add a great umami flavor, as well as a natural red color to your meat, and the maltose will give it the proper lacquer shine (its used in the CS Peking Duck recipe and I'm surprised that it wasn't used here).
I finish my char siu on hot charcoal if I can, broil it if I can't, but whatever method I use, I baste it with a mixture of 50% maltose and 50% marinade while it finishes.
Personally, I like pork belly for this, and think it is the best cut for char siu, but that's obviously a matter of taste.
Is that 230g Sauce for one bag or for the complete 2000g of pork?
Made this last night but switched it up a little bit... Only had Teriyaki so used that instead following the same method... Charred on the grill briefly and fed some friends... Also made the Bao Buns recipe on Chefsteps and they couldn't have been any better. So delicious! Thanks as always and ecxcited you'll be back - I am ready for the onslaught of new content!
I just made it with 1kg of pork and a 165ml jar of sauce and that was plenty. So i'd say yes, 230g for the complete 2kg.
60C for 8 hours produced a result that was nowhere near tender. I cooked for an additional 6 hours at 70C and the result was great. Did I do something wrong? (No worries though; made some brown rice with the bag juices and the hot mustard+sesame seeds+green onion suggestion was very well received.)
what should i do if i dont have sous vide materials?
I am confused. Is the entire shoulder put in the bag after being sliced into steaks? Will that much meat all come to 55degrees? The photo doesn't make it clear to me whether one steak is in the bag or all of them. Help please!
You could put them into separate bags, it depends on your setup. I recommend putting maybe 1-2 steaks per bag so that they can all get to temp quicker.
You have not tasted the best char siu until you use Lum's Char Siu Sauce: http://www.hawaiianfoodonline.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=285&ParentCat=9 I live in Hawaii and this sauce has so much body to it. When you marinate with it, it starts off thick and as all the good stuff go into the meat, the sauce then becomes thin. It's the best selling char siu sauce in Hawaii for the last 60 years and is great on pork but my favorite is thin cut short ribs and then grilled. I need to use the Joule when I get it, but this is what the char siu shortribs look like... absolutely no comparison.
Just made this recipe tonight at 60C/140F for 8 hours. The pork came out juicy but still rather tough. The fat had hardly rendered and was quite chewy. Not the tender, melt-in-your-mouth texture as described, and definitely not the texture of good char siu. The flavor ended up pretty close, despite making the char siu sauce at home. Anyone come up with a better temp/time?
I did this recipe with pork belly and did it at 176 F overnight, so around 8 hours but probably more like 10. After pulling from the water bath, I cleaned off the excess sauce, which I boiled and reduced to a glaze, the crisped up the belly under the broiler. The results were amazing - the pork was tender and juicy and crispy on the outside. Try it with pork belly and I think you might have better results.
Otherwise, try increasing the time - 12 - 24 hours would render the fat and make the shoulder more tender.
Pork belly is de rigeur as far as I'm concerned!
My wife is not likely to eat this if it is fatty, although I like the authenticity of char siu using pork belly. How would using pork tenderloin change time and temp considerations? And would use of sodium nitrate be a 1 to 1 replacement for the salt?
Been making Char Siu for over 25 years, no gadgets or store bought sauce. I was given a recipe by our favorite barely English speaking waitress, at our favorite Asian restaurant in Everett, WA all those years ago. I had tried it with store bought, not that good, so the search continued, until I got her input on this and so many other recipes. She helped me be a much better stir fryer/Asian cook. I am Spanish by descent.
The look definitely authentic, and the taste, well there is no comparison, FANTASTIC! I know everyone has different tastes, but a good homemade marinade with marinated red beans is the way to go! I tweaked her instructions just a bit, took her some to try, and got the best compliment of all, better than my mothers. If you decide to make your own marinade, leave it in the fridge at least 5 days. It comes out red, no dyes. I have used Tenderloin, butt roasts, even trimmings from a 1/4 side we got for the freezer, all worked. Plus, if you make enough, it freezes really good. I cook/wok stir fry at least twice a week, so I have a pantry of staples on hand, rice wine, rice vinegar, soy sauce, hot oil (make my own now), fish sauce, oyster sauce, gochujang, sesame seeds (white&black), sesame oil, soju, black and red bean sauce/paste, asst., noodles and rices, and assorted spices. So now after working with the items they are now staples in my pantry, just like everything else.
This is one of the easiest things to make, mix in bag, add meat, (the vinegar and wine are preservatives), come back morning wanted, bake in very low oven, low and slow, covered up so meat doesn't dry out. I used an oven bag once, but it worked too good, the meat was so tender it fell apart, no slicing, great tasting though.
So if you want homemade, easy, freezable, do or don't have a Sous Vide, look for a recipe you think you'd like the flavor of and try it with a small piece of meat, next time you'll make more. The most I made was a 9lb roast, cut in strips about the diameter of a tenderloin, the size works best.
Just a few tips. Hope it helps.
If I make 2 kg of pork shoulder, do I still follow 60C / 8 hours or 60C / 4 hours? Salting it for 20 - 30 mins will not dry up the pork once in the bag?
There's no reason to replace the salt with sodium nitrate.
Hello Pamela:
Your recipe sounds so good. Would you share it with me?
You could send it to https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox
If you don't want to share I understand but if you do I would be so grateful.
Charlie
I agree. My mom taught me to make Char Siu. Maltose is a must. It gives that red color when grilled. Not forgetting We use 5 spice powder and Hoisin sauce.
I have been making Char Siu for some time. Whenever I would go to any Asian country I would buy all possible ingredients to make that authentic marinade/sauce. Having read this recipe I decided to give it a shot (+ that store bought Char Siu sauce has been in my pantry for a couple of years already so it was about the time). The result was just incredible !! Who could have thought you can get that perfect Char Siu taste with that store bought sauce ?! Thank you ChefSteps !
Fantastic recipe. I split it in 2 bags(2 steaks per bag), marinated over night and cooked for 9 hours. Came out perfect, tender and delicious. To finish, I strained the juice from the bag and reduced for about 20 minutes to a think sauce. Brushed that on before and during grilling. Perfection.
I got about 2lbs. of pork butt a week ago and, after slicing it up and marinating for 24 hours, I used one piece to experiment and put the others in the freezer.
Wow! Instant hit.
I was going to use any leftovers in fried rice but I didn't have any leftovers.
This is a kitchen staple recipe.
Surprised you recommended Lee Kum Kee’s Char Siu Sauce. That stuff contains both high fructose corn syrup and red dye number 40. Yuck!
You can freeze marinated pork!
Just put the last piece on today and anticipation is rife!
Yes Annette, Lum's the THE BEST !!!
*High pitched hysterical screaming* I hear they use that devils salt, MSG, too !! Whats to become of us?????
Char siu needs to be red.
Put the “steaks’ in individual bags.
Pamela, I'd also like to check out your recipe. If you don't want to post to here I can provide an email. In a couple weeks I'm making char siu bao and wanted a good char siu recipe for the inside.
Char siu is made red by the inclusion of the lees of red fermented bean curd, available in any Asian grocery. Using LKK Char Siu is like using Hunt's BBQ Sauce.
Pamela, I would love to have the recipe if you would share it with me. Can send you my email address.
Can someone explain how sous vide meat can dry out? I made this and I think I might have grilled it too long.
Yes, you grilled it way too long. I followed the recipe to the T and it was moist. I stuck it under a broiler one time and another time on a very hot grill. The key is vey hot grill/broiler and don't put the meat on until either is very hot. If you have let it cool and feel that it needs to be brought back up to temperature, drop it back in the water bath for 10 minutes then grill/broil.
My biggest suggestion is to follow the suggestion of marinating over night.
Followed the instructions to the letter. Added some honey to the bag juices and cooked down into a glaze, then I glazed the meat while it finished over hot coals. INSTANT hit. This is, by far, one of the most delicious and high-value products for the least amount of labor. My wife and three roommates devoured 1kg of pork in like 20 minutes.
Sodium nitrate is never ever used as a direct replacement for salt
Anyone have any tips for adapting this to ribs?
What a fantastic recipe. First time doing Char Siu with any method, so don't have a point of comparison, but hard to see how any other way would be better than sous vide. Followed the recipe almost exactly with an overnight marinade but increased the cooking time to ~10 hours. I reserved and reduced the marinade liquid a bit and brushed it on the pork during the final grilling and it came out perfectly. Served it with butter lettuce leaves to wrap, jasmine rice, pickled daikon and carrot, pickled red onion, and a side of sauteed Gai Lan. The next time I may add fermented bean curds to the marinade for the more traditional reddish color, but you can't go wrong just as written. Highly recommend this one.
I grab the 20lb shoulders from the cash and carry when I do this… when I do it I use the dry rub in the packets and usually double the per pound ratio on the powder. I’ll go as far as 24hrs on the batch but pull out some every 8 hrs to see how it stacks up. Once done I reduce that liquid to a sticky goop and paint it on the meat, then broil. I will try this sauce next time.
You're knocking on the door of a sous vide truism. When you're finished with a water bath cooked meat check out the bag. All that fluid came out of your meat. In some cases it can be considerable. To grill it dry you'd have to grill the scunion out of it which you probably did not do. Your pork probably suffered a lot of water loss during the SV braise..you never had a chance.
Would you mind sharing the brand of the grill you used in this video? Looks great. Thanks
Found it! https://www.pkgrills.com/the-original-pk-grill-smoker-classic-silver/
I couldn't find a shoulder roast, but scored some St. Louis style ribs. So I trimmed them up, removed bones (so they didn't poke a leak in the vac seal bag), and went on about my business. Turned out great - it was a hit with my people! Thanks for the recipe and video!
They're using the original PK Grill... I highly suggest getting the new PK360.
https://www.pkgrills.com/the-pk360-grill-smoker-classic-silver/
When you read preps like this there's much in them that takes variables as standards. Unless you got your pork from the same pig Grant did you have no reason to think it will perform the same. So as the platitude goes "if at first you fail......" I find SV charts / recs to be approximate starting points them successively approximate to what I want. Seems you did just that.
I just watched something the other day and to no avail could I remember the name of that grill, also knew that Grant had posted something in the past… was about to search but here I find it .. thanks 🤙
Why is this recipe for 140f for 8 hours, while there is another recipe on ChefSteps for pork shoulder steaks for 140f for 24 hours
I did it at 64C and instead of grilling it, the traditional way would be to brush some maltose or honey on top (microwave them for 10 secs so they get soft) and broil it, so you also get a slightly sweet layer on the outside.
Has anyone tried achiote paste to incorporate that red coloring? Thought i'd try it....
ePop
