Go to the Recipe: Beef Short Ribs Your Way
Once the meat is cook, if I decide to cool it and then want to bring it back to temp before serving, is there a rule of thumb for temp and time?
The time and temperature it takes to reheat a food to the same core temperature you cooked it at is essentially the same as when you cooked it from raw. There is some discussion about this our forum: http://forum.chefsteps.com/dis...The physics of heating time for anything is governed by the size (length, width, height) and shape of the food (flat plate, cylinder, sphere, whatever), what it's made from (metal, wood, muscle, etc), the starting temperature, and the desired final temperature. That's it. Precooking and then chilling a steak pretty much puts you right back to where you started, refrigerator temperature. So it takes just as long to reheat.*People are always skeptical of this, but it is easily tested with a decent thermometer. So it's worth trying.Chris
I've tried cooking beef cheeks for 72 hours at 54°C and both times when I opened the bag the smell of the meat was not pleasant. Any ideas of what could have gone wrong? I have been reluctant to try this again. I've noticed that Grant always uses latex gloves, I assume that this is necessary especially for prolonged cooking times at relatively low temperatures.
Elias: Hygiene is important for any kind of cooking—nearly all cases of food borne illness are actually caused by poor hand hygiene—but it is especially important when cooking sous vide at such low temperatures. Inevitably, there are bacteria living on the surface of the meat, and during the slow heat up phase to 54 °C is sounds like some of these underwent some growth that produced the unpleasant aromas. The good news is that it's unlikely that these were pathogenic bacteria, the bad news is that you won't want to eat something you spent 72 hours preparing.Here is my suggestion:(1) Always decontaminate the surface of your meat by either briefly searing the meat before packaging it for sous vide cooking. Or, simply submerging the bagged meat in simmering water for about 5 seconds. Doing this will eradicate nearly all of the bacteria living on the surface, and avoid the risk of them growing while cooking sous vide.(2) Try increasing the temperature to 131 °F / 55 °C. It's surprising, but increasing the temperature by even 1 °C will significantly quicken how fast the temperature the meat reaches temperatures that kill dangerous bacteria.If you have additional trouble, let us know.
Thank you for your reply Chris. I will definitely give it another go. Can I just say, that the website and the ability to interact with you all is just fantastic.
Thanks Elias. We're glad you're enjoying the experience.
I've done 72 hour short ribs many times and it comes out amazing. Just like in the video above, it still holds it's shape (unlike braised meat) but it gives to a fork very easily. I like to flash fry it in peanut/duck fat for caramelization before service.
- originally posted by sygyzy
I had the exact same issue. 72hrs at 140F....meat came out smelling like my shoes after a marathon. Rinsed it, torched it & crossed my fingers. All was well and no one got ill. Still, the funk after 3days of investment and with no time left before New Year's dinner did give a fright. Next time, I will try the 5sec dunk in boiling water to get the funk out of there.
Risk S. — Sorry to hear that you had some problems. Yes, blanching should help next time. Can I ask, though, what cut of meat were you trying to cook?
Hi!Many thanks for your great website.I'm a big fan of your book modernist cuisine.I've tried to make a beef stew (boeuf bourguignon) with round beef (which is equivalent to short ribs, isn't it?) at 85° C for 24hours. But i was disappointed of the results : this is different of your video which seem to be very juicy and tender. It was quite tender but dry. Maybe it was a different meat? Maybe it's better at a lower temperature?And, by the way, I don't know the french traduction for short ribs. Do you have an idea?Many thanks.congratulations for your very great and very beautoful website with beautiful vids.
Are you all using nitrate to keep the meat the color in the video? I have worked with sous vide short ribs for years, but only get the color in your videos for my beef when it is cooked around 52 c?
Yes, the nitrate enhances the meaty flavor and also keeps the myoglobin a bright red color.
Hi,I'm a big fan of your site and I think you guys are doing a great job!How about making a couple of short rib recipe videos next. I know sous vide short ribs are supposed to be one of the most popular dishes made by modern chefs today. It's just a suggestion but I'm sure a couple of recipe videos for this would be much appreciated by a lot of your fans. So far, All I found on your site were those sous vide short ribs time/temp combination videos. Thanks!
Coming soon.
I have prepared Short Ribs sous-vide many times using 72hrs @ 60C. I decided to try your suggestion for 72hrs @ 54C. I loved that the final product held together making it very easy to produce a nice brick shape that could be seared nicely; however, for me, the texture could only be described as "chewy". Quite a bit of the connective tissue was not turned to gelatin, and any subcutaneous fat was not rendered at all. I chose to use Prime Short Ribs, which, in theory, has a lot more marbling. Also, I have never really done any pre sous-vide cleaning of the ribs because at 60C, everything gets rendered. Any suggestions? I know I must be doing something wrong... :)Thanks!-Jerry
At 54 °C you will not get a lot of fat rendering and connective tissue (collagen) will not gelatinize as completely as at a higher temperature. Because of this, it is critical that you clean and trim the portions of the fat cap, silverskin, and any sinew. When properly butchered and cooked, the texture should have the chew of a strip steak, but with more flavor.
Thanks so much for the response! I suspected as much when I saw that almost none of the fat rendered. This was my first try at 54C as a test run for a dinner party I am hosting this week. The parts that had no sinew/fat/silverskin were fantastic and exactly as you describe, so it sounds like I need to do more prep work with them at 54C. I am just used to not having to do much with a braise because it all either melts away or becomes gelatin :)For my dinner party, I am going back to tried and true 60C and will work on my end-to-end 54C execution some more.Thanks again and thanks for the fantastic site!
Late to this discussion I know but is there a recipe/instructions for how to achieve the results shown above? I was just about to embark on the 62/48hr cook today and was disappointed when I ran across this thread and realised those pictures/videos are not what I will actually get without further (unspecified) preparations :(Almost seems like there should be a disclaimer on the content above :|CheersHW
Nitrate is not strictly necessary, and cooking a beef short rib at 62C for 48 hours will produce a very similar result to what you see in the above video clip.
which one is the best?
It depends on your preference. They each have their place depending on the dish.
I had exactly the same experience. Next time I'll try a quick sear or blanch to kill surface bacteria quickly before they can stink things up, if that's what happened.
It looks like this thread is pretty dated but I'll throw in my .02. We're in our second season with Boneless Short Ribs/Roasted Shallot Demi on our menu. We prepare about 40# every week. Our product is chuck flap (that used to be relatively cheap @ around $4.25/#) and they come in bulk in varying sized between 16-24 oz, even a few bigger at times. We season with a coarse pepper mixture, then sear in canola oil until browned on all sides. We then vacuum package 2 per pack and cook at 141 degrees for 48 hours. They are servable after 24 hours but then you have to use a steak knife although it's prime rib tender. After 48 hours, you can cut them with a spoon. People freak out about how good they are and even when I tell them how we do it, most can't register it in their heads. Having said that, I should sell machines because I have had at least a dozen customers order the smaller sous vide models for at home in the last year.
Great post / thread. Am I ok using a zip lock on the 72 hour prep? I will be searing after and dipping in simmering water prior. Thanks!
Bright red and good looking. Any advice how much nitrate is reasonable to get the results? Do u guys have recipe for those meats above? Do i have to use brine, and how long?
Looks sweet and delicious but none of the vids load, can you please fix it?
I too would like to know the nitrate level for the recipe!
If you would be making a sandwich, and would dip it in sauce before putting it on bread for what texture would you go chris?
Is there a machine being developed to encompass sous vide with automation; in other words, will Jane Jetson's push button steak, mashed potatoes, and peas be in the near future?
My Teacher Chef Malcom at JWU Charlotte made the best fn beef and pork ribs today at school using this technique! I'm hooked!
properly butchering takes a lot of skill and labor so that alone may be enough reason for me go the other direction.. not to mention the waste that occurs unless i use the scraps in a stock or something. I have noticed with several of the temperatures that you suggested for different meats, my meats are a little chewier than i would like. It does seem to be mostly on the sinewy parts but sometimes it seems almost impossible to remove all of it without wasting half of the meat.
"Short Rib • 158 °F / 70 °C, 24 hours"
If i go by this direction, can i get away without trimming the meat beforehand?? (I had never done any butchering so this does not come easy to me.)
"Sodium nitrate, a preservative that's used in some processed meats, such as bacon, jerky and luncheon meats, could increase your heart disease risk." -Mayo Clinic Once again i'm surprised at the ingredients you choose.. with seemingly no regard to how healthy they are. I hope you don't ever determine that small amounts of rat poison cut down the cooking time or you'll be telling us to use that too. lol
Recently did a 54c/72h cook and it was FANTASTIC! S/P the ribs, allowed to sit for 30m then seared all protein surfaces. Bagged and "steeped". The texture was sublime and difficult to describe, it just did not have that "braised pull" but ate more like a steak. Did not use nitrates and no one died.
Thanks so much for this post which greatly enhanced my understanding of the relationship between time, temperature and texture. Have been able to apply this aggressively to several meals made with 'Beef Chuck roast' which has similar connective tissue and marbling to the 'Short Ribs.' thus allowing us to get the combination of doneness, texture and taste to match up with what we were looking for in a particular dinner combination. These meals have ranged from 'fall apart braised' all the way down to 'steak like' ribs. Am sincerely hoping you will do a similar study for the leaner beef cuts such as 'round roast/steak' and 'tri tip roast.' Tri tip results have been excellent, and am having with 'round roasts/steaks' which want to maintain a excessive amount of 'chew' though good flavor. Extended time across the full temperature range seems to produce a dry, almost chalky, taste. Any thoughts and/or personal results would be appreciated. The best results so far has come from an overnight marinade in the 'whey' that we get as a dairy by-product from making fresh Fresca Queso cheese combined with rolling and tying up both the roast and steaks. Again - your thoughts would be appreciated.
If I do the 185F short ribs for 12 or 24 hours, should I quick chill after it's done, or should I let it rest to absorb some liquid? I know Mcgee and Chefs like Keller say that meats should rest and cool after hot braises, so it will absorb some of the liquid. If I do a quick chill, will it still absorb the liquid? Or should I let it cool naturally and then quick chill?
If i wanna have the doneness / texture of 85 °C, 12 hours and i wanna finish it in a smoker ... what do you guys suggest ?
Few questions:
1. If my ribs are already frozen, do I need to defrost first? 2. Given they are frozen, do I need to sear first? Or can I just do it after cooking?
3. Do you season (S&P, other?) first? or after?
Lots of delicious food isn't good for you. Everything in moderation. This site isn't devoted exclusively to health food so I'm not sure why you are complaining.
My thoughts exactly. Perhaps Neil is immune to botulism.
I just tried the 72hrs 54C short rib. This cut is not normally found in Norway so when it showed up at the butcher this friday I had to try it (there was quite a bit to trim of before i got it as i wanted).
I smoked in on my BBQ 1hr and then put it into the sous vide 54degrees C for 72 hrs. When it was done yesterday I used some bbq sauce and glaced it in my oven.
The texture was very nice and tender as i wanted it. But I had a feeling that I should have used a few degrees higher, because when biting into it the remaining gelatin in the meat was not pleasant when I ate the piece. I wish it was broken down a bit more. Could this be solved at a higher temp? Maybe 56 or 58 degrees?
I took a picture of the ribs just before glazing it (attached). What do you think?
Funny you say that since most rat poisons contain warfarin, which in small doses is actually used in medicine to basically reduce the chance of blood clots. So if you give the cow or whatever animal warfarin first then it might actually reduce the cooking time?
Apparently collagen melts at 70C
http://www.scienceofcooking.com/meat/slow_cooking1.htm
So for a cook like the 54 C one, you really have to trim off all the collagen and silver-skin
Has anyone gone beyond 72hrs?
dont need to rest after sous vide. The reason for resting is to let the juices flow back toward the outer(hotter) parts of the steak. With sous vide, your cooking with even temp all the way through.
I am concerned about the suggestion to go as low as 54ºC for such a long time. The rule that Douglas Baldwin established himself, and now he works with ChefSteps, was that the safety minimum threshold for long cooking times was 54.4ºC. Furthermore, when we push the limits like this a small error in our equipment calibration can be critical, so this is, to me, just pushing the boundaries of safety. See for example the several comments saying that they had bad odors after that profile. I understand that you are using several hurdles here (nitrites and likely pre-searing, but these are not mentioned explicitly in the entry as critical requirements).
I understand the logic of the 54ºC, I guess. Whereas the 54.4ºC threshold was established as the lowest value where C. perfringens had been shown to die, it should not grow from 52ºC upwards. But still I think this is pushing the limits. Specially taking into account the review by the ComBase team. They are serious microbiologist that developed one of the most well-known models of bacteria growth and destruction, and whereas they themselves start modelling death of C. perfringens from 54.5ºC, they indicate too that this was not intended for very long cooking times, and tell us that, in their opinion and review of the experimental data backing that, there is not enough evidence of the bacteria population kinetics in the area of the growth/no-growth (to which 54ºC would belong) for long cooking times. I really would acknowledge to have your point of view on their analysis.
This isn't exactly true. Granted, collagen breaks down into gelatin at a very good rate at 70C, however, if you had to get this temperature minimum every time, you wouldn't have to supple fall apart textures they have in the videos above at temperatures below 70C. Collagen breaking down is a combination of time and temperature. You will get significant breakdown at lower temperatures, as seen in the videos above, but you need to cook them for a significantly longer time. Example: I cooked octopus last week, which, if you're not familiar, has a very high collagen content. I cooked it at 60C for about 7 hours. If the collagen hadn't broken down, I would have been chewing on ropes of rubber, but it was very tender. I had let it cool in the bag I cooked it in, and it was completely surrounded by the congealed gelatin that had broken down from the collagen.
Silver skin is a different substance. It doesn't break down with heat (at least not at a heat that you would like your meat cooked to) and should be trimmed off. This is the membrane that holds the entire muscle together. It does contain some collagen, and can be softened somewhat, but is still relatively unpleasant to eat.
And botulism could increase your "dying-slowly-horribly-painfully risk" - so take your pick.
Just finished doing a 72 hour (80~ hours actually since I was home late.) 62C! I did 3 pieces, but I had to rip into one of them... didn't even get the potato puree out in time. Seasoned and Searzall'd mine. Now to make the wine reduction and puree to go with it.
Do you share your recipe? Thanks I have a catering company and want to prepare these for a Christmas party for 50
Hi Rebecca, we do! You can find the recipe above!
The 54C/ 72h is truly... The EXCUSE as to WHY you get; an immersion circulator and a vac packer.
I've seasoned and seared before the cook, this time did not sear, just heavily seasoned (salt & Pepper, thyme, garlic powder, bay leaf, olive oil) and yielded excellent results. Less "juice" seemed to have come out of the ribs and into the bag, a really awesome rib after searing hard on my Le Creuset French Grill. Of COURSE incorporate all accumulated juice into my red-wine redux (highly recommend Big House Red as your go-to cooking red, BIG fruit-bomb, low acid/ tannin but still drinkable). Thyme, garlic, veal-stock, LOTS of black pepper, himalayan rock salt.
When my sauce came together and after searing, held the ribs in the sauce while pulling together the dinner. The meat crept up to approx med in appearance, but the texture was supple and sliced like a steak. Flavor had the brisket/ short-rib heartiness.
Umami-bomb glazed and caramelized Brussel Sprouts, Butter held together by potato puree and chanterelle mushrooms. H&G 2013 Chalk Hill Cabernet Sauvignon and a few good friends. My "go-to" late Fall/ Early Winter dish to blow some minds of friends and family.
Can you apply these same temperatures to pork ribs?
This is a great guide for cooking short ribs low temp, however, it is listed as a recipe on the recipe search. Is there an actual recipe? Do you have a ratio of salt, sodium nitrite, resting/curing time for the meat? Thanks!
If they are conventionally frozen then yes you should thaw them first. There is a technique called cryo-freezing that was used in the modernist cuisine labs to quickly freeze meat. This is the go to way for cooking from frozen because it develops the smallest ice crystals in the meat and does not ruin the product through cooking from frozen.
Honestly, I'm trying to find it, but just can't seem to find a link to the actual weights and measures recipe.
Hey Joshua, for short ribs I recommend following the brining ratios and times in this pastrami recipe, simply omit the spices if you want. Also if you remove the bone before brining, the brining time can be cut in half. Hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions.
For pork spare ribs I recommend 60 °c for 16hrs, but for a shorter cook time try 75 °c for 4hrs
It seems to me that when cooking meats long term (12-72hours) its not a good thing to use typical seasonings in the bag as it significantly changes its flavor profile and seems to become something different and also overwhelms the meats flavor.
I did 48 hour ribs both with just salt as instructed and with my usual rib rub and the latter turned out not so good and salt ony seems to have a really good pork flavor.
Looking for confirmation that this is true. I had the same happen to beef ribs as well with a different spice rub.
Mike, I totally agree. I just do kosher salt and fresh cracked pepper for any long duration items.
Still have to do some cleanup. Most "Grocery Store Butchers" leave on some pretty inedible silver skins and such as well as maybe too much fat. VERY COLD meat and a good sharp knife will take care of what you need to easily. If your meat source has a good and reputable butcher, he can take care of it, of course, but have some confidence that: Your ancestors did this once or twice before, you can to!
