Go to the Recipe: Holiday Panettone
I made this for a 2nd time and I managed to avoid the mushroom cap this time. I used pistachios and used orange zest rather than the oils which I felt were over powering. This is a fantastic technique. The result for only making it in one day is incredible. I actually left my dough ferment overnight in the fridge, but its not necessary.
I asked how to try to avoid the mushroom cap on my panettones and Nicholas gave me input to use a higher protein flour. I sourced and Italian 0 flour with 15.3% protein and all went well until I over thought my oven. I used a probe to check my oven temp and although set at 325, the probe was showing @ 270. I kept upping the oven temp until it reached near 325 but thought I should double check with another probe that showed the oven temp at over 400! I removed the first probe and let the oven cool down using the 2nd probe, but honestly with a steel on the lower rack I have no idea what the real temp was in the oven. The photos tell the story. the first was pre-bake and all looked well. The second shows the results after the oven caused a 4th grade science volcano and blew the tops off the panettones. The third photo shows the finished interior. I hope someone can confirm the volcano was likely caused by a high temp to start the bake and not the protein content. It's not pretty but it's light and delicious anyway! Thanks.
I have made this multiple times and know my Kitchenaid could not have taken double the dough. There is a lot of mixing to get the inclusions introduced into the dough and the motor heats up. I have, however, measured everything out for 2 panettones and made one after the the other. With cooling time for the machine they finish to step 6 about 25 minutes apart and I then overnight them and bake the next day together in the oven. I'm doing that again today. Good luck, it's a great finished product.
Is there really no way to double this recipe? There has to be a way.
Hello, I plan to make this recipe soon, but with respect to the starter, at what point beyond its last feed should it be? Should the starter be hungry (12 to 24 hours since it's last feed) or more optimally active (say 5 or 6 hours after a feed - think Ken Forkish formulations)? Since this recipe is such an undertaking, I just want to be certain. Thanks for the inspiration.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give that a try.
Man Al, I'm not gonna lie I think yours looks really good! Matthew worked really hard to nail these panettones for the shoot and some did come out with a "mushroom" look to them. Tim Chin (The big dough dawg) might be able to provide some better guidance here. But for now you're stuck with me theorizing....
To avoid changing too many things because it seems like you're so close to nailing it, I believe you should make an adjustment to the type of flour you're using. KA bread flour is a wonderful bread flour that is easy for everyone to find. KA BF protein content (12.7%) is just enough to get you in the door to go on the ride BUT using a higher protein bread flour will help provide more structure during the bake. Many specialty pannetone flours will be "00" and have protein > 16%. If I remember right we might have been using bread flour from Shepards Grains with a target Protein: 14.0%. So if you're able to get your hands on a bread flour around 14% that might be all you need to change. Again try and not change too many things at this point, you're so close!
I have made this recipe 4 times and always have the mushroom look when finished. Grant mentioned this as well in his video. Any thoughts on how to better avoid this? If you scroll down a bit you will see my photos from 2 years ago. Thanks in advance.
Hi! Full transparency: I wasn't around for development on this recipe (nor have I ever made this recipe!). But I have made other panettone recipes, and I agree with you, most other recipes call for a higher internal temperature. For enriched breads, we generally aim for anywhere between 180 F (82 C) to 195 F (~91 C). The exact temperature depends on the recipe (i.e. the degree of enrichment, hydration, form factor, etc.)
Based on my close reading, it sounds like we're banking on carryover cooking during the long cooling process. I'd wager that during that time, the internal temperature will climb at least 10 degrees F (~5.5 C), which would put us well within the recommended range of internal temperature (I'd also double down and bet that the internal temperature would climb even higher than this). Starch gelatinization occurs in 79C+ range, which is the primary objective for any bread (along with recrystallization/retrogradation during cooling).
All this to say: We'd likely aim for a lower internal temperature here to maximize the moist, tender, custardy qualities of the panettone. There's far less chance of the bread having a "leaner" or drier texture by pulling it at a lower temperature. It is admittedly a higher risk strategy. But you know what they say: High risk, high reward.
Hope this helps!
Billy that looks amazing!
Most panettone recipes call for an internal temperature north of 91 centigrade. How come you settled on 79?
Has anyone found a benefit to decreasing the size of the dough to get a larger crumb? I'm thinking about decreasing to 900g - 1000g. Right now we're around 1174.5g per
Made this yesterday. Damn delicious.
I used a digital probe to make sure my oven temp was right and both times the panettone reached the target temp in @ 30 minutes after lowering oven temp, similar to yours.
As mentioned by others, this recipe works incredibly well.
However, I have a question on the baking. The recipe says :
Reduce the temperature to 300 °F / 149 °C and bake for another 45 to 55 minutes until the internal temperature reaches 175 °F / 79 °C.
In my case, the 79C are reached after 30 min or so, which makes a total baking time of 45 min ~ instead of the 60-70 min mentioned in the recipe.
What is your experience? Did I miss something?
I’ve just completed the bake and is currently hanging upside down!!
Making this right now. I am an experienced home baker who mostly focuses on simple flour water salt yeast breads, but I'd classify myself as experienced and fairly skilled. I just added my extracts, sugar, and salt. My dough is much wetter than the dough in the instructions. I will let it "autolyse" for 10 minutes and see if the gluten stiffens up a bit. I am thinking I should've let it autolyse before adding the sugar. Will update shortly!
Edit 1: 15 minutes of resting didn't really help, so i did a naughty and added about 15 more grams of flour, mixed again, and allowed it to rest for 20 minutes. The dough then separated from the sides of the bowl, at which point I added my cherries. They seemed to cling to the dough well. My dough is still a little soupy, but it has a nice airy structure and pulls apart like cotton candy as shown in the recipe. Now into the bulk fermentation.
Edit 2: I am treating the airation stretch and folds as gluten building stretch and folds. I figure this will cause issues for the crumb structure, but my dough is quite a bit stickier than the dough in the recipe. I am also dividing the dough into three smaller servings, so I will allow it to rest between folding, cutting and shaping.
First attempt with this recipe yesterday. Prepped ingredients by step the night before. Assembled and baked next day out of the oven in @7 hours. Used KA bread flour, zest instead of oils, homemade candied orange and clementine peels and dark chocolate chips. Every step seemed to hit with the recipe. A bit of a mushroom but very happy with result. Making again next weekend. Thanks!
When would be the best time to feed your starter before using it in this recipe ?
Thanks a lot Matthew. I'm going to try making my own creme fraiche and butter. That sound like a great idea.
Making it this weekend with KA bread flour and wondering if it's better to do it in 1 day or 2 days based on this flour, or no major difference? Thanks. Looking forward to it.
For the buttermilk; making your own creme fraiche and then butter from this, and the cultured buttermilk you will get from making this butter is very thick and will resemble the Bulgarian buttermilk. You can also add a touch of yogurt or cultured sour cream to buttermilk to thicken it. Adding cream or heavy cream will only thin it down.
I use organic sugar when baking but granulated sugar is a direct swap. The cherries are soaked and you will scale the drained weight of cherries so, after they are juiced up on bourbon.
I've made this recipe several times and everyone really loves it. The thing that bothers me is that I can't get Bulgarian buttermilk. I buy the highest fat buttermilk I can find. My mom always told me I can make more buttermilk by adding regular milk to a partially filled buttermilk container and waiting a couple of days. So I started thinking about the fat content of my buttermilk. Would it be a good idea to mix half and half or even heavy cream with regular buttermilk a few days before making the panettone as a substitute for the bulgarian buttermilk?
I also noticed that the recipe calls for granulated sugar now instead of sugar in the raw. I'm curious to why this change was made. I've also always meant to ask about the bourbon soaked cherries. Is the 125g based on the weight of the cherries before you soak them in bourbon or after they are full of bourbon? Thanks.
It is normal practice to reduce the oven temperature that was used in a still oven when switching over to convection. The decrease can be a range of 25-50°F. You can also keep the same temps and just use convection in the beginning with humidity to increase oven spring, after that you can turn the fan off. The fan increases air flow and is great for circulating heat but along with that can produce thicker crusts. Some baked items prefer less air circulation to keep the crust thin, tender, and lighter in color.
Planning on making this soon. If I use convection setting in my oven should I adjust the temperature settings for the bake? Thanks.
Well done!
The method ans measurements are working unbelievably well. Got this beauty for second try. For whom wants to make it: really try to get the best ingredients you can buy, especially the flour. I never believed only the guality of flour can make huge differences. Only adjustment I did, was to change the dry yeast to 15grams of fresh. But for the first try it was way too much. In the second one I put 5grams and it felt just great. 4hours 15minutes was the final proofing time. Dark choco chips and candied orange inclusions. My workshift just finished, so could not wait till full cooling, that is why the top collapased a bit. (Professional combo oven with steaming mode really feels like a cheat.)
Cheers guys! I am really thankful for the recipe!
distatic malt powder
I've made this twice now. First time was great, second time it came out spectacular. One thing I noticed is that it seems to dry out faster than commercially available Panettone. After a few days (stored properly wrapped of course), it's already noticeably drier. Any tips on how to mitigate that?
I substituted 120g of poolish (60g bread flour + pinch of yeast + 60g water @80F, overnight) for the sourdough starter which seemed to work out well. I had to increase the initial temperature to 400F for 15 minutes to get the kind of bloom shown in your videos. Even 375F was inadequate, the "crown" drooped down the sides. I don't think I scored it long enough before baking to achieve any "bloom." I got good texture and stranding in the dough, but it was tackier to handle than yours looks to be in the videos. Great instructions, I learned a lot, back at it next year! Thank you, and all the best, Tony
You just didn't get enough gluten development. Adding flour changes the hydration of the dough. Which will result in a tighter, less airy crumb.
To get the dough silk and smooth before adding the fruits, I had to add more flour. The ending result was fine, but the panettone was too, hmm, simple? Like a bread with fruits. I believe this was due to the additional flour, but I don't really understand where I got it wrong. Other high quality panettones I've eaten were more dense, richers than mine. If anyone could comment on possible mistakes I've made.
By theway, the final product looked great.
This technique is excellent. I had 2 issues. Firstly I couldn't fully incorporate all the fruit bits. I let the mixer run forever, I let the gluten relax trying to get them to work in and it just wasn't happening. Perhaps my cherries were too big and I should've cut them smaller. Then a piece of the top broke off in the oven during the initial bake. Not a big deal though because it came out really well. The crumb came out way better than I anticipated. The oils we're slightly over powering for my taste. Id probably go less next time or just use zest.
I make sourdough bread rather frequently, and typically I just do stretch and folds right in the bowl. Why do you choose to do it on the counter top instead? Is there any disadvantage to just folding the dough directly in the bowl?
Thank you.
I would approach them the same way in that they just need a booster to awaken to full activity. The stiff starter is in a more dormant phase than the wetter starter and usually activates after 1 feeding. You may want to add more liquid to the stiff one to increase its fluidity. Your liquid starter may take a touch longer to activate from the fridge but less than 1 week I would assume.
Hello. I have a liquid starter in the fridge hibernating ( which I’ll try to revive) but just as a backup I have a baker friend who keeps stiff starter for his works but will gladly give me, if using that how do I approach it differently? Or am I better off feeding the stiff starter at 100% flour 100% water for a week to convert into a liquid one? Thank you.
A little late for a reply but worth the try. Sourdough changes the parts of gluten responsible for triggering the coeliac response and non-coeliac gluten sensitivity. Basically, sourdough bread is fine for coealic people. If you are still afraid, check with your doctor or look it up. Also, extending the fermentation even further will increase this benefit. Maybe throw it in the fridge overnight then give it an hour or two for it to bring back to room temp.
Hope it helps. Cheers!
I made this a few days ago. Very tasty, but the dough was too wet. I couldn’t shape the loaf for surface tension, and I didn’t get a muffin top. I did use King Arthur bread flour and measured liquids by weight. I think that the difference was that the hydration of the sourdough starter in your starter recipe was 100%, while I keep my starters at 120%. Next time I’ll try this with a drier starter and maybe add some vital wheat gluten. Love your site, Gentlemen.
Hi! This is an excellent recipe. I have been researching various recipes for a while and this is the most 'doable' option. A thousand thank yous! Really works. I have read some comments about Roy's version-its like comparing apples and oranges! This follows all the traditions aside from the Glassa for Panettone, which is totally optional. A thousand thank yous again!
You can retard the dough in the cooler after bulk fermentation at room temperature up to 12 hours. Then temper the dough to room temperature for an hour or two and proceed with the coil folds after bulk fermentation. Best way to store them is in a plastic bag that is tied well and then in a box.
One more question, please. If i want to give more time for fermentation, what times i have to follow for bulk and cold fermentation. Also how many coil folds i have to do during this proccesse? One more thing, which one is the best way to store it, in order to stay soft and fluffy?
To add hydration you can add water at the end of the mixing before adding inclusions, say around 25-50 ml of water or you can add in the beginning of the mixing with the buttermilk, or you can swap the butter milk for water, or you could simply increase the buttermilk, egg yolks and butter by 20%. You need a high gluten flour for this dough since it is so enriched and needs the structure to sustain it all the way through the fermentation and baking process.
If you want to increase the hydration then OO flour may be beneficial as it is a finer grind of flour and can absorb more liquid. If you can find Panettone flour or Manitoba you are in business. Ideally you want a flour with a protein % at 14-16%.
You can very well increase protein to any flour by adding VWG. Here is a way to calculate any flour. https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/how-to-make-any-flour-into-bread-flour
Hello guys. Great jod. I have three questions. The first one is : If i want to increase the hydration in this recipe, what changes i have to do? The second is: My bread flour has 13,2% of protein, this amount of protein is ok for this recipe? And the last one is: if i want to put some gluten powder to increase the protein amount and the strength. Are you believe this is not necessary? if you find it OK, what changes i have to do?
Thank you all for the support.
You are the best.
Post.
AH! That makes sense. Along the same line, is the recommended 125g cherry weight a pre-soak or post-soak weight?
Not really. You will not achieve this dough without high protein. You could try a substitute but the results will vary in density. To do it in one shot would be an anomaly and will require some failures. This is a daunting task.
We used tart cherries which are smaller. The cherries you show in picture are sweet cherries. They do swell more than the tart but will mix in just fine. The alcohol is a nice touch but it is also not necessary to soak the fruit.
When soaking fruit in booze, the recipe recommends 1 part fruit to 2 parts booze. Is this correct? I soaked cherries in bourbon overnight, and I fear they're now holding far too much moisture to include in bread. They puffed up a LOT more than the cherries in the video guide. Before and after soaking:
I have a gluten allergy. Is there any way to make this gluten free given you call for high-gluten flour? Would some combination of xanthan gum and expandex work?
Check the tip out at the top of the page about 2 days. Also you can opt to proof the dough in the mold overnight in the cooler.
What if you *did* have two days to do this, what would you do differently?
