Go to the Recipe: Shokupan (Japanese Milk Bread)
Hi, am I missing something about the recipe time here? The time up top says "5 hrs total; 45 min active" but adding up the minimum times throughout the recipe I get:
1m (tangzhong)
13m (kneading dough)
2h (first proof)
1h (first proof after punching down)
30m (rest after rolling)
2h (final proof)
35m (bake)
Which comes out to 6 hours and 19 minutes while ignoring times for stuff like rolling the dough, scraping down the bowl, etc. Is the recipe time made assuming that we ignore the baseline instructions and go with the method in the tip (shorter initial proof using proofing box)? Even then the minimum time from start to finish is significantly over 5 hours.
Hey Joe.
Generally nonfat milk powder is our standard choice because we can be more in control of where the fat is coming from with the other ingredients. BUT because full fat MP contains about 26–27% fat and this recipe only calls for 13g you can use them interchangeably without effecting the results. Good catch!
The sizzle reel on YouTube Grant says full fat milk powder but your recipe calls for nonfat. Which would you recommend?
I only have the 13 inch Pullman loaf tin (lidded) on hand, I've calculated that I'd have to scale up all ingredients by the factor ~1.44. Also, I would divide the dough by four after bulk rising and roll up four coils, but I'm not sure about the baking temps and time. I live in Germany and have a convection oven, however the fan itself can not be adjusted, only turned on or off. Does anyone have any suggestions how to go about this?
Is there a way to make a whole wheat version of this? A way to incorporate whole wheat flour would be amazing!
I wondered the same thing. Did you try it and did it work? I can't imagine why it wouldn't??
Check out our marbled rye milk bread recipe!
I'm curious if anybody has tried adding any rye flour to this?
Use tapioca starch instead if you want the same effect.
I wonder if you are not activating or killing your yeast? Are you using "Instant" yeast or "Active" yeast? If you are using the latter, you would need to hydrate it first at the proper temperature. If you are using the former, you don't need to worry about any of that stuff . . . which is why you should use the former. SAF Instant Yeast is the stuff you want and it's available all over the world.
If I don't care about the swirls on the side and don't mind just characterless crust on all sides, is there any reason that I can't roll it into a long log and drop it in the pan rather than cutting the dough in 2, and rolling them up? The final proofing step is sort of a pain in the neck, and I don't care too much about the swirls, would I'd be happy to skip it if it's not material to the taste of the final product. Thanks.
I’ve tried this recipe a few times now. my dough doesn’t seem to double in size when left in the fridge even up to a day. Seems to proof ok afterwards but takes around 5 hours to proof after shaping, and the loaves come out looking either underproofed in the pan or with a flying crust. Am I doing something wrong with the initial cold bulk ferment?
It is normal for shokupan to be more stickier than other doughs due to its moisture content , don’t fret. As long as it passes the window pane test
The video said you can substitute with bread flour . In other shokupan recipes they call for a roux made from bread flour and boiled water that is then left in the fridge a day prior to use.
Has anybody's bread sides sunk while it's cooling down? I have a few theories as to why it might happen...but not 100% sure
Hello, I am in India and sourcing Mochiko sweet rice is a bit of a treasure hunt.. but we do have some local varieties of short grain fragrant sweet rice like “Govinda Bhog” and “Indrayani” so I could use those instead.. also how would you advise scaling this one for a 1lb Pullman pan ?
Can this be prepared without the stand mixer? I've always wanted to try doing milk bread but don't have a stand mixer.
If you were to add the butter at the same time as the hydrating ingredient (eggs and milk) you would coat the flour with the butter fat thus preventing it from hydrating and producing gluten. In short, despite mixing for a very long time you would struggle to develop the correct dough texture. This method ensures that the flour properly hydrates, developing gluten and thus structure, before adding butter (which acts as a tenderiser, flavour, and a little bit of a rising agent).
Can you explain why you add the butter later rather than at the start with the other ingredients?
Usually you would reduce the temperature from suggested when using a fan, but when items are covered it really doesn't matter. You can always drop the temp to keep the color lighter but the finished baked loaf will tell you what to do next time in your setup at home, since every oven is different.
Thanks. 🙏
Last question - promise! - I have a fan oven. Would I take that into account? i.e bake at157c rather than 177c?
Freezing bread is a great way to keep it longer. It does change the inner crumb a bit in texture but most people will not notice after a refresh or a toast. Any frozen items are better once refreshed. Refreshing in a hot oven will give the loaf or slice that fresh baked feel.
Has anyone tried freezing this bread? I’d like to make it ahead of time for Xmas but that requires freezing it. Thanks
Yes. The milk powder adds more milky flavor and helps to relax the dough. The dough will be great even when left out.
can this be done without milk powder without drastically changing the finished product?
Correct, at this point for the site, only the ingredients block items will scale using the tool. All measures written into the steps in the text block will remain the same as the original measures.
Just an observation wrapped in a question: within Step 1, weight conversions don’t change when scaling up from 1x?
Push it to that smoothness. It sounds like a mixing issue and sometimes rich doughs need to be worked longer or at a higher speed in the mixer. Kneading smooth on the bench also helps to smooth out when the mixer makes it look rough.
Hi! I’ve made this loaf 3x and enjoyed it each time, however, by the time I get to the first proof, my dough looks nothing like yours, and clearly doesn’t have the same consistency or gluten development. The downside is that I’m worried I’ll overwork it if I continue pushing it to that smoothness. The end result has been amazing and without big voids, but am I missing out on anything with a less-than-picaresque early dough?
Sounds like you have the Chefmade pan that is taller and shorter. It is the same amount of dough for that size pan. It looks like below the dough was under proofed just a bit. But you can also increase the weight of the flour by 10% using the scaling tool in the top ingredient block. Hit edit Scale & Units button, change flour to 346 grams and that will compensate for space filled in the pan.
Hi my pullman pan (from amazon) is 4.8 in tall, 8.3in long, 4 in wide at the bottom and 4.8 in wide at the top. I tried this recipe but my loaf didn't hit the top of the pan after baking. Any thoughts on how to scale up for this pan so I get a nice square loaf?
ok so just use the scaler because i have the 13z4 pan and are "instant yeast" and "fast acting" or instant/rapid rise yeast the same ?
Yes to doubling items. But, if this is your first go at bread I recommend keeping with the normal yeast amount.
If one scales the recipe x1.5 to fit the 13x4x4 Pullman loaf pan, can the milk powder/yeast still be doubled to increase the taste? Never attempted to make bread before so this is going to be my first foray
The egg aids in tenderness, moisture, and emulsification of the dough. You can omit the egg by adding in a touch more milk, around 25-30 g milk.
What function does the egg provide? Can we omit it? Or is there a replacement for the egg?
It sure is.
Is sweet rice flour the same as glutenous rice flour? Thanks
Thank you! Even though I am not a fan of bread that leans sweet, I trust every recipe y'all put out - they all simply make sense.
The sugar here really compliments the milk. It doesn't seem to be overly sweet but if anything you may like to reduce sugar and not omit it. Sugar acts much like salt as a seasoning and has benefits here to bring out more flavor.
I am truly looking forward to making this recipe and probably should before I ask the question. Is the sugar absolutely necessary? I have no dietary restrictions or needs - I am simply not fond of bread that is too sweet. Thank you!
Thank you! I appreciate the response!
Yes, try and use one that is a fine grind. Erowan brand rice flour is the finest ground rice flour.
Would plain rice flour be an acceptable substitute for the sweet rice flour? Thanks in advance!
I'm' in the same boat but found an excellent work-around. I've been making lactose free milk bread and I use lactase milk and Amazon actually sells lactose free milk powder which I have had no problems with.
We made it with lactose free milk, came out pretty good (we used regular milk powder though).
Eiher or.
This was my exact question also. Thanks, I did the math. Would you also do an equal division of the dough in a longer pan, or would dividing into thirds be better for a 14" pullman? Stay with the 330-335g sections?
Thank you!
can this be made in a bread machine maker. have you tried to see what the results looks like.
The method is great for any breads you wish to keep soft like fresh baked for up to a week. Not sure I would employ in a muffin batter.
I don't see why not Michael, but please let us know and show a pic.
If you use water alone please reduce the water amount by 10%. Omit the powdered milk and you can still whip in some ghee since it has no lactose or use another fat of choice.
Using scaling tool, change bread flour to 480 grams and it will make 1.5 times the recipe. That will give you around 1000 g of dough for that size pan.
How do I scale this formula to fit my 13 X 4 X 4 pullman loaf pan? THANK YOU
I love milk bread but my family is lactose intolerant. I know the flavor and texture might suffer without it but are there any substitutions for the cow’s milk and powdered milk in this recipe? Can this recipe be made using water alone?
I know the pre-gelatinizing can't but after than can it be done in a breadmaker?
Can this be done in a breadmaker?
Looking forward to trying this. The pre-gelatinizing, seems like something that would be easy to add in to many recipes but are there reasons to avoid it, or adopt it?
