Go to the Recipe: Brioche Burger Buns
"Are you able to use steam in your oven?"
No. It's just a normal oven. I usually put a pan of boiling water under the buns — I've never once achieved the "too much" oven-spring depicted on the left — so I leave the water pan in for the whole baking time. Honestly though, pan of water or none, I don't notice much difference.
In fact, this is ridiculous, but I've even considered getting a steam oven for this recipe alone. (We're currently planning out a kitchen remodel.) But I've never used one before, and I'm not sure if I'd find much use for a steam oven otherwise... not to mention, there's no guarantee steam would do this oven-spring properly either.
An additional thing I wonder about is the egg/milk wash we're supposed to spritz them with in step 10. During baking this wash browns quickly and I wonder if this forms a kind of crust that prevents proper oven-spring as well.
The buns in your pic are gorgeous by the way.
That said... I would point out that these do not depict proper oven-spring either. Between steps 12 and 13 above is an image under the tip "Visualizing oven-spring." Your buns more accurately resemble the far right bun that "didn't get enough oven-spring." Don't get me wrong, they're beautiful, and most likely delicious. But you seem to be having the same issue as every single one of us in the comments, and I'm curious why none of us are able to reproduce what ChefSteps has depicted above.
I don't know. Lots of unanswered questions...
As I said, I've been wrestling with this recipe for some time now, and really want to get it right. Challenging because I'm not skilled enough to know what to address.
Hi Scott,
I’ve been making this recipe for years and can confirm that level of oven spring is achievable! Are you able to use steam in your oven?
Usually with bread the trickiest part is pushing the proving right to the limit - it’s always hard to get the right call but in the past the bad results tended to be from underproving
Pic below is from a batch last year - about to make at least 70 for a bbq this week!
I keep coming back to this recipe. It's my go-to for delicious burger buns. But still...
I have so many questions about it, I kind of wish ChefSteps would revisit and possibly make corrections or perhaps, clarifications? Mostly about the dough, because it's never like what is described or photographed here.
From the end of step 3:
I've made this dozens of times, and never once has this dough pulled away cleanly from the sides. Usually if I run my mixer at medium it flings gooey blobs of dough up the sides of the bowl, so I've taken to running it a bit slower. But still, it never cleanly pulls away.
From step 4 after resting in the fridge:
This dough comes out of the fridge tacky, but becomes incredibly sticky after about 60 seconds. Forming the buns in step 7 is quite a bit more challenging with a sticky dough.
Finally, the "oven-spring" is probably the absolute most frustrating aspect of this recipe. The buns depicted in the photos look gorgeous, but I've never gotten the same result. My buns always look like the bun on the right with "not enough oven-spring" even if I leave the pan of water in the oven the whole time.
It is curious that all the user submitted photos of successful buns look exactly like mine. It seems that none of us has gotten successful oven-spring following this recipe.
Somewhere in the comments Ben Johnson admitted Caputo "00" Pizzeria flour was used, but even after switching to that, it doesn't seem to make any difference. Could there possibly be anything else that needs more clarification?
Please? LOL.
All in all, this is a fun and challenging recipe that produces incredible buns — which is why I keep repeating it.
Certainly never got any complaints!
It's just frustrating not being able to achieve the exact same results ChefSteps got — which is the whole reason I come to ChefSteps — to learn knockout techniques!
Hello Scott, great questions. I recommend heating the milk up to around 105-110°f the help dissolve the yeast. For the amylase Modernist Pantry's recommends a range of 0.01-0.05% bakers percentage (to the weight of the flour). I would start at 0.025%.
"Use the measurements in the activity to weight what you need."
Could you please clarify what this sentence means?
How much liquid amylase should be used in this recipe?
Does the milk need to be warmed to activate the yeast?
Also, the amylase linked comes in liquid form. How much should be used?
I did this mistake, they turned out a bit more greasy but still damn fluffy and tasty
Hoping to get a hand with this recipe - I’ve tried it 4 times now with no luck - always seem to get a disc shape rather than a bun shape like in the photos. I’ve tried with / without amylase, new yeast, longer proof times, longer steam times in the oven, but still the same result. Anyone have any tips?
I would be interested in this as well. The very light, thin, and pliable crust on the buns in the pictures and videos surely suggest some type of steam was used?
If I wanted to try these in a rational oven, what settings would be ideal?
Mine turned out perfect. Probably mixed the dough for 8 minutes before I added the butter and did 20ish minute total time on medium speed.
Multiply the yeast by 0.75.
Sicherlich müssen Sie nur um etwa 40 % erhöhen, um die zusätzliche Feuchtigkeit in der frischen Hefe zu berücksichtigen.
Hallo
kann ich für den Teig auch Frischhefe verwenden?
kann ich auch Frischhefe verwenden?
I made this exact same mistake twice. The dough is a bit sticky but still makes amazing buns. They just come out a bit greasy
Hello li huang,
1. Did you make sure and divide the eggs and milk? 50 grams egg and 50 grams milk are for the egg wash. Adding this extra liquid to the base dough will make it too wet.
2. Instant yeast is the best yeast you can use for bread making. The lack of rise is from the formula being slighty off from adding too much flour. Yeast activity can also have effect so try and use newer yeast that is not close to expiring.
Hi, I have two problem when I make this buns.
1. My dough is too wet, I needed to add about ten extra spoons of flour to make it become a formed dough. Is that because I used all purpose flour instead of bread flour?
2, After the final proof, my bun dough is smaller than shown in video and does not rise to touch the foil rings after baking. Is this because I used instant yeast instead of bread machine yeast?
Same amount as above really. 3-5 grams.
How much of the malt powder would you add then?
Where did the 17 hours total time come from? The recipe calls for 2 hours in the refrigerator and proofing for 2 hours. I made this with active dry yeast, and got no rise at 77-degrees. Normally, active dry yeast needs to be activated in warm milk with sugar until it bubbles. I should have done this, even though the recipe did not mention it. I raised the proofing temperature to 85-90 degrees and got reasonable rise after 6 hours. I ended up with tough somewhat flat butter balls. A complete disappointment.
How would this be adapted for SAF Instant Yeast?
Thank you Chefsteps for this recipe 😊,
Hi guys. The recipe is a little confusing for those who are not intimate with baking. When you first describe the ingredientes, you add an extra 100g of liquid that, if I understood correctly, should go to the egg wash. It would be better if you separated this total from the main recipe, as it may lead people who don’t cook often (or don’t read the full recipe) to a preparation that won’t work.
That is very very sad.
Hi Matthew - are you suggesting that there is a way to use beer if you don't have amylase?
not malted milk powder,, is malt powder, brown to gray color... after i tried my dough also changing color because of it...
Brioche was originally made by hand without an electric mixer. The technique is to add butter a little at a time and slap the dough onto the bench to work in the butter. Work the butter in fully each addition and make sure dough is not broken before adding more butter.
I do not have stand mixer.... i am about to make this with the whole hands, please give me an advise... i did buns with the hands before... if you can tell me some advice please.... Thanks for that recipe!
You can add cooked potatoes to the already mixed dough at around 15-20%.You could also replace part of the flour with potato flour at around 10% but you may need to adjust and add a touch more flour. Potato flour and wheat flour will hydrate a touch differently.
Hi, I'm new here and I want to ask if this recipe can be turned into a potato roll recipe and what I should change in it
Hello mohsen, The eggs and the milk are divided. Part is for the dough and part is for the egg wash. This is probably your issue with soupy dough from the extra 100 grams of liquid. Dough hydration is also based on flour and sometimes you do need a touch extra. 200 grams extra flour is a lot plus the 100 grams of liquid raising the percentages. that amount of yeast should still get you there, it may take a touch longer though. Make sure the yeast is active and bubbling before mixing the dough. Older yeast runs out of gas so, its best to use yeast that is not very close to its expiration date and if so then increasing the yeast is beneficial.
hello there, I followed all the steps as said, I used active dry yeast, so first of all, I had to add almost 200g of flower to get a dough, with 700g it was more a pancake prep than dough, then in phase 8, the buns didnt get bigger at all, should i use more yeast or another kind of yeast thank you
Also wondering whether 'bread improver' would be a plausible substitute? It seems to be a more widely available and accessible ingredient for most people.
Thanks Matt!
I'll give it a go and see if it works..
What would one expect in the absence of any amylase given the relatively low butter to dough ratio? Is the dough quite dense and stodgy? I'll look for this as my cue for whether glucoamylase is an effective substitute?
Hello putu ajus, If you are talking about malted milk powder then no, it is very different. If you do not have the diastatic or amylase then just omit. The dough will not be as supple and tender but still a good dough.
And beer is liquid bread....
Hello Victor, If this is what you have it should work similarly. It is a digestive enzyme and used in beer brewing.
Dead yeast or way over mixed.
hi... i couldt found diastatic malt powder instead of amylase.. is just Malt Powder working to use it???
Can I use glucoamylase instead of amylase?
The yield is correct. You are adding the 100g of egg wash, which doesn't affect the overall recipe yield.
Any ideas of why the buns didn’t rise?
Hello Gustavo, You can just omit from the recipe and have great results. If you can find malt powder it will work the same. The amylase works as a tenderizer and makes the dough nicer to work with. Also, softens texture of the baked bread.
I cannot find amylase in my country. Can I remove it from the recipe or substitute it?
Best to freeze once the buns have completely cooled. Then freeze on an open tray(IQF). Once frozen then package in a freezer bag or other container with a tight fitting lid to prevent freezer burn and crystallization. Slicing them first will help you in the end.
When is the right time to freeze the buns? And how u recommend we do it? Thanks in advance
Increase the yeast to 25 grams if using fresh yeast.
What if u use Fresh Yeast¿?
It could also have been overproofing since you said the dough had grown "nicely"
Hello Oleg, When things collapse after baking that means it was under baked. Next time try using an instant read thermometer and temp to 185F/85C. The tops should be a nice even golden brown too.
Hi! could you pls tell me what could be wrong. The dough has grown very nice, but after the oven immediately fell. Inside there was a wet layer.
Hi , if using a rational oven what setting do you recommend ? or should i change something of the recipe_? thanks
Yes, use active dry yeast.
Diastatic malt powder.
Hi, is the amount of yeast correct to use dry yeast?
Hi, any substitute for amylase?
Hi. I can't get amylase where i'm. If i don't intend to get some shipped in - any other substitute?
My apologies if someone already posted this, but I didn't want to read through 10 pages of comments. I use these rings:
https://www.amazon.com/Norpro-Muffin-Rings-Set-4/dp/B0001VQIHW/ref=pd_sbs_79_2/138-3477725-1698763?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0001VQIHW&pd_rd_r=56b71fdd-dcf1-4cac-8400-bc283504b30e&pd_rd_w=HB4iq&pd_rd_wg=91z08&pf_rd_p=d28ef93e-22cf-4527-b60a-90c984b5663d&pf_rd_r=Y892T29C6R73XKD016ZH&psc=1&refRID=Y892T29C6R73XKD016ZH
Most of these French breads are cooked in ovens that can be charged with a blast of steam. You can put a pan of water in the oven or spray or whatever but you will not achieve what a steam oven will do. The idea is to blast the bread with steam and not plummet the oven temp by opening it when you do so. So what to do? Small diameter ( 3 mm or so ) stainless steel tubing is available on sites like eBay or hardware suppliers. You need about 3 feet ( aprox 1 meter ) of it. You'll also need a meat hum hypodermic needle 19ga or 18ga if you have a 2mm lumen in your tubing. put the needle in the tubing and fix it with super glue ( worst option ) JB Weld ( better ) or braze ( best ) giving you a long flexible SS tube that will attach to a leur hub syringe. Get a 20 cc or 300 cc leur lock syringe. Put an EMPTY pan in the bottom of your oven. Tape the tubing so that it enters the oven and points at the pan. ( You can delete the pan and use the floor of the oven if its clean ) and then tape up the tubing so its accessible at the level of the cooktop. ( Gorilla tape works great for this ) The oven door seal will nestle around the small diameter tubing and seal. Preheat oven. Put in your dough. Close the door and inject 10 to 20 cc of water via the tube. It will strike the hot pan and flood the oven with intense steam. Works great for most breads. When done pull the tubing and store for the next time you need it.
Your yield is incorrect. It should be 1630 g, about 20 buns, not 1530 g, about 19 buns
that is correct. amylase is in liquid form. Use the measurements in the activity to weight what you need.
Hi, I am about to try this recipe. I have jut got some amylase from the Modernist Pantry. However their amylase comes in liquid form. Any suggestions as how i judge how much of it to use, the weight as in the recipe? The bottle suggests usage range 0.5 -3%, which i guess refers to the percentage of the weight of flour.
Why are my buns darker on top? I even use the same oven. Too much egg wash?
