Go to the Recipe: Chicken Demi-Glace
How do you guys come up with the amount of MSG you recommend? I understand that you just add enough salt until the food tastes seasoned, but how do you devise your MSG percentages?
Also, 2% salt, whilst I imagine this tastes perfect, and I would use that much as it's what reccomended, is a lot of salt. What is the factor that means so much salt is needed for a sauce like this? I understand that cold sauces need to be seasoned heavier than hot counterparts, so I imagine a cold sauce like mayo would need to be higher than 2%?
Hello Nathan.
First, thank you for asking this question! I went back to double check my trial logs and the salt was at 1.2%, YIKES! I just updated the recipe. I do agree with what you're saying about seasoning a mayo though. In general, yes, cold sauces may take more salt especially high fat ones such as mayo.
The simple answer to how I arrive at the MSG percentages is I simply treat it as salt. I find it helpful to say that to people because it starts the conversation reminding ourselves that it's packed with sodium. But to take it one step further MSG is about 1/3 sodium content in mass to sodium chloride.
So when I am seasoning (using this sauce as an example) I set my sauce on the scale and tare it to 0. Season with kosher salt to the point that I feel is appropriate and log that number. Keeping in mind 4 things.
1. Someone making this might not have a scale as accurate and there is a risk they might over season it because of this.
2. I ask myself, might this be served with a heavy starchy side or a roast of meat expecting this sauce to do the leg work of seasoning the rest of the components?
3. Am I leaving enough wiggle room for the user to adjust the seasoning to their preference?
4. Am I going to be adding MSG for umami and in result upping the overall salt?
Once I've done that I tare the scale back to 0 and do the same with MSG. But just from experience I know the starting range will be around 0.05-0.1% and might go up form there.
NOTE: Palate fatigue is real. When seasoning like this especially with a RICH sauce your palate can get blanketed and you begin craving more and more salt/msg. Once I start crossing 1% salt and/or .1% MSG I like to rope someone in to give it a taste with a fresher palate.
Hope this is helpful Nathan and within my ramble I got you the answer you were looking for.
This is WAY more than I hoped for. Surpassed my expectations completely and I'm immensely grateful for the response.
I didn't think I'd inadvertently help you correct a recipe! I just took the recipe as gospel, as I usually do with all your published ones. I did think 2% was a lot, but entrusted there was methodology behind it. 1.25% does sound more in line with expectation. Do you find above 1% salt/0.1% MSG is over seasoned for most things except fatty or rich things when you rope in the other staff to taste? I'm now wondering whether my attempt at making the online advice of 1-1.5% or 1.5-2% salt and up to 0.8% MSG work is more than what's actually necessary.
I'm glad that you guys have made a demi glace in the realm of possibility for a home cook, and also one that doesn't involve sourcing beef bones and the like. Reducing 1l of stock down isn't such tedious work, and is very much akin to the bouillon cubes. I imagine that this could also serve as a base for sauces and gravies too.
Short answer is yes, those numbers are kinda high. A safe starting percentage to use for soups and sauces is usually 0.5% salt and 0.1% MSG. When i said 1% salt above I meant more that once you're getting up to 1% or above be mindful and increase in small quantities.
MSG is the cherry on top in regards to seasoning in my opinion. Please don't feel like you have to use it to season something well. I've worked in plenty of kitchens that didn't use it. Just make sure you start seasoning with salt before adding it if you're wanting to add umami.
Long answer:
Unless I'm mistaken I can tell you're in search of the rules within the seasoning sandbox you can play within. I respect that a lot! Below I broke out the fat/salt/MSG %'s of some broth/sauce recipes I've worked with a lot.
So lets take the consomme as an example closest to a "sipping broth". Even these numbers are high if I'm being honest. BUT there is a reason for that. I landed on these %'s because consomme is usually consumed in smaller quantities and/or served chilled. But whats important to focus on is it's served on it's own.
Comparing that to the hollandaise, hollandaise is high in fat and ignoring the X-factor being what type of Benedict it is, it's also doing the work of seasoning the bread and poached egg as well.
Classic consomme: (0% fat)
Chicken Demi: (8-10% fat)
Precision Hollandaise: (roughly 60-75% fat)
I think the most helpful thing I can share with you Nathan is that all of these broths and sauces can be seasoned at the end just before serving. So you're completely in control. A safe approach might might be starting with 1/2 or 3/4 of our recommending seasoning %'s, try it and add the rest if you feel like there is room for more salt.
Nicholas, what is that last dish that your are plating?? It looks intriguing!
oh man this is beautiful, is there any recipe for the potato terrine that you got going with the chicken ? thank you
Oh thats a new recipe coming soon from Tim Chin! Early December we will have it published on the site.
Hey, Nick. Thinking about two things which is the use of MSG in this demi glace and the use of bouillon powder in your poulet farci. ChefSteps has a recipe for umami powder. I guess the first question is whether you'd like the results of replacing the aforementioned ingredients with this umami powder and if so, what the percentages would be? Let me know what you think.
Considering doing this recipe with guinea fowl. Any reason not to?
As in, using a guinea fowl carcass for a pressure-cooked stock, then turning that stock into a demi? That sounds great, and it'll work great.
The one issue you might run into (unless you've got a whole mess of guinea fowl) is not having enough bones/scraps for making a nice gelatin-rich stock. In that case, you can just supplement with chicken bones (or turkey bones, which have a flavor that's a little closer to guinea fowl, imo) for the stock. In a pinch, you could fortify a good gelatin-rich chicken stock with guinea fowl bones/scraps... would recommend roasting them til brown before adding them to the stock and simmering it for an hour or so.
If you just mean pairing a chicken demi with guinea fowl...that also sounds fantastic.
Is there a way to make demi glace without alcohol?
.This recipe turned out great. The sherry definitely improved the final product.
