Go to the Recipe: Nacho Cheese
Just ordered some sodium hexametaphosphate (did I really just say that?!?) from modernistpantry. If it gets here in time, I will make this. Or maybe if I walked down from my office in Belltown you could spare a few grams?? Anyway, Go Hawks!
Yeah, baby!
Any methods other than Sous Vide? I haven't made a SV purchase yet.
What would happen if the sodium hexametaphosphate was omitted?
If you don't have emulsifying salts and are trying to make this last minute, you don't need to worry! You can replace the milk (or at least some of it) with evaporated milk, omit the emulsifying salts, and get a pretty good result.
Ziploc in a pot of water over the stove, as they mention.http://www.chefsteps.com/activ...
@ncustod:disqus This recipe will be really easy with a pot of water on a stove. Do you have a thermometer, or no?
You can do it stove top. The one thing you need to be very careful with using this method however, is keeping your temperature low enough that you don't compromise the bag. I have lost more than one zip lock to too high of heat when doing the stove top method. Its totally possible, just make sure keep an eye on the temp. I would shoot for keeping it under 80 °C.
You would likely end up with a broken/gritty cheese sauce. If you are having trouble sourcing it, here is a link to a small bag from modernist pantry. http://www.modernistpantry.com...
1. I miss Tillamook. Cabot's OK, though.2. Any resources on functional differences between sodium hexametaphosphate and sodium citrate?
Here is an article I tracked down last night. I apologize there is a pause on the link to avoid advertising. http://www.naturalproductsinsider.com/articles/2000/02/understanding-process-cheeses.aspx. In the case of our nacho cheese, the SHMP is acting to keep the cheese nicely emulsified and thick enough to coat the chips.
Would love to hear more about this. What process incorporating evo milk works best?
Thanks! I came here to ask exactly this
The article Ben posted below is a useful resource. http://www.foodproductdesign.c...Evaporated milk already has disodium phosphate so you could follow the recipe as it is written, but you might need a bit more liquid to thin to the same consistency. Honestly though, it's cheese sauce, not rocket science. You could just warm the evaporated milk in a saucepan, and immersion blend/whisk shredded cheese gradually until you reach the consistency you want, and then season to taste. Chris' comments on http://www.chefsteps.com/activ...give a bit more information. (Don't over heat or overmix!)I got the idea from the ideas in food macaroni and cheese http://www.seriouseats.com/rec... On the other hand, http://www.seriouseats.com/rec... probably gives a better starting ratio for cheese to evaporated milk (although you might want a bit more cheese, since that recipe contains cornstarch for some reason).
Awesome. I couldn't bring myself to pay the expedited shipping on the Sodium Citrate and Sodium Hex, so I'm going to give this a shot for our Super Bowl festivities. Thanks for following up!
- originally posted by Nick
How does the cheese react when bruléed, say if I wanted a more baked nacho result? Should I scale the recipe differently for that kind of a result?
You will want to scale the milk back, otherwise the sauce will get very thin when heated. If you are planning on putting the cheese on cold then baking, I would scale the milk back to 40-50% by weight of the cheese. It should set up firm enough when cold that you can slice it. Keep in mind it won't slice exactly like a block of cheddar(it can get a little sticky) so you will probably want to use a wire type slicer. Im curious to see how this turns out, please post pics!
A question about using emulsifiers for cheese sauces in general: I've used sodium citrate to make well melting cheese slices, but whenever I try to make a cheese sauce like this I run into a problem. I tried making mac and cheese (a la Modernist Cuisine at home) both baked and on a stove top, but the problem is that once the temperature of the cheese sauce lowers it becomes less "mac & cheese" and more "block of cheese with macaroni in it". I've tried adding more liquid in the hopes of keeping the cheese sauce creamy as it cools but it was to no avail.I haven't tried this recipe, nor have I used SHMP before, so maybe this sauce doesn't have the same problem, but does anyone know a way I could keep a cheese sauce like this from re-hardening?
I still don't understand the biochemistry behind this. It's just amazing it works like a charm. No roux ever again!
crock pot
You will need to add more milk or moisture to the recipe to lower the melting point.
- originally posted by Grant Lee Crilly
Hi Guys,
Does anyone know why after the cooking step, the whole mixture has the consistency of a thin soup (I was a little worried). But as you blend the mixture it thickens up into that creamy texture?
Yes, shearing (blending) aligns the casein proteins in the molten cheese so that they tangle up more, which thickens the cheese sauce.
Well damn this is incredible, I just did this with an amazing cheddar style gourmet cheese that has deep coffee notes and man, this is mind blowing! But believe it or not we just can't finish 600g of melted cheese. What's the best way to store this? Do I just reheat in 75C water SV?
have you guys tried just melting the cheese mixture in a pot with out using a bag? we make large amounts of cheese sauce and doing this sous vide is a bit labor intensive. what are the draw backs to just heating it up in a pot.
If you add the cheese too early, it sinks to the bottom and can scorch. It works fine if you heat the milk/salt mixture while covered, add the cheese, let it melt, then immersion blend.
Is it possible to omit the Sodium Hexametaphosphate? Or will it alter the recipe too much?
Looking for some help turning this into a beer cheese recipe.
What are your thoughts on substituting part or all of the milk for Beer?
How would I adjust this recipe to be liquid when chilled or close to room temperature?
I'm excited to see what comes from experimentation.
Thanks,
@Ben Johnson — I can see part of the link but it's truncated and won't allow me to click on it to for the article. Any chance you can repost? I've done my own search on Food Product Design but can't find anything that talks about the two ingredients being used together. Thanks.
I'm late to the comments on this, but I'm wondering if SV is overkill? Could you not heat the milk and salts to a very low simmer, then add the cheese in batches to melt? Modernist Cuisine as a similar recipe that's done stove top and they use an immersion blender to create the emulsion after the cheese is melted. Just curious on thoughts regarding this or if anyone has tried it? I'll be trying soon and will post results as well. I know its not "cheffy" to worry about how many pots and equipment items to use, but if I can get similar results in one pot versus setting up my SV cooker, then blender for some cheese sauce that would be attractive. Thanks for all the great stuff!
Any response for this? I was thinking too, if I made it and took it to someone's house. I'd like to know the best way to reheat, if necessary.
Is there a shelf life to either of the melting salts?
Just to update as I promised, I did make this on the stove top and it turned out great! I simmered the milk and salts then incorporated the cheese in small batches, using the immersion blender as I went. After all the cheese was melted and emulsified, I added the diced pickled jalapenos and blended those into the mixture. Fantastic sauce, thanks so much for this!!
My cheese came out with a sort of powdery or lumpy texture. I'm not sure what I did wrong, but I tried to follow the recipe exactly.
I made this last night and it was amazing! My only thing is mine came out a little on the salty side. I think the next time I make this I would reduce the salt by a little bit.
Made this for a super bowl party. I raise dairy goats, so the bar is always high when I bring cheese to a party. It was a huge hit. I only wish I had doubled the recipe, because it was gone in minutes.
Thanks for that info! I'm pretty sure SV isn't the only way to do it, but, with that, it allows the chef to pretty much "set it and forget it" and do other things. I just put everything into the bag, set it inside the pot w/ water, and went to do other things. I'm pretty sure it doesn't make a huge difference if it's in there for longer than on the recipe. Next, I just poured the contents into my blender and let it whirl for 20-30 secs, and it was done. I didn't need to worry about burning anything, or have to monitor it.
Just tried this, but it ended up soupy on the top, and somewhat thick but not creamy on the lower. Is that because my salts did not dissolve properly? It's a little hard to see in the milk, what if I dissolved them in a bit of water, and then added it?
My question would be to you is, did you blend it long enough, which incorporated the top portion of the mixture? It took a couple of seconds before the whole amount began to mix. I did find that when I added the dry ingredients first, then put in the liquid, then placed into the SV setup and poured it out into the blender, there were still some clumps left in the bag. The lack of dissolving of the salts won't make your solution separate like that. That situation would probably just not give it the flavor and texture of nachos, depending on the undissolved salts.
Did you use the suggested cheese? Maybe your milk was bad. I've heated bad, or at times, raw milk, and it coagulated and was clumpy.
I blended it for over a minute at the highest speed in a VItamix. Then it still looked soupy and I blended it more, but it didn't help. Should I have done even more?
If I mix up my ingredients and seal it in a bag is it something I can keep in the fridge for a few days before actually cooking up or will the chems mess with the milk?
I have reheated it in the microwave and it's been fine.
I haven't tried that, but I can say for sure that the finished sauce holds up well to refrigeration and re-heating in the microwave. I made a batch and ate on it for about a week, it heats up nice and smooth...
I tried this yesterday Since I dont own a blender at the moment I put the mixture into a pot and blended it with a stickblender and it worked like charm! Really delicious and easy!
At the recommendation of a friend I adapted this to make the cheese sauce for Mac n Cheese. I worked really well. I also used a stick blender and the sauce came together quickly and looked just like the sauce in this video. So easy to do, but it does taste different than a sauce made with a roux. Not complaining though.
For my Mac n Cheese I added chopped pickled jalapenos and lots of crisp bacon. Baked it for a 10-15 mins and topped it with panko for the last 10 mins. Served along side of a smoked chicken sandwich (on toasted brioche bun) and a kale salad with pomegranate-pear vinaigrette.
Scott, how did you measure the weights? Just guessing but maybe inaccurate amounts of the salts will change the results. When I did this recently I forgot to check/change the battery in my scale.
While measuring things did not look right, so I changed the battery and checked my scale with a reference weight.
After that my measured amounts looked more like what I expected. Had to throw away some of the the first pile of salts because I did not trust the scale.
Wonder if the Sodium Hexametaphosphate is really essential? I've been making a cheese sauce on the stove with water and sodium citrate for ages and assuming it's not rushed it turns out well. Really would like to try the SV method though.
Hey all, I love this recipe and have done it to great success many times with different cheeses. I'm doing an event soon and I want to fill a fountain with 4 pounds of this sauce. Do you think there will be any issue if I make the sauce 2 days in advance and chill or freeze? Any opinion would be appreciated!
search for: "understanding process cheeses" worked for me
Hi, I am going to be tweaking this in an attempt to make a beer-cheese soup using a slightly malty pale ale as the beer component. Has anyone given this a try yet? Any thoughts on adding a small amount of starch as it will be a bit thinner than a cheese sauce. Do you know if separation issues occur at higher dilutions?
Any input is welcome, Thanks.
i need some help with nacho cheese sauce. I did and it worked very well but too salty for me. To reduce the saltyness should I reduce all salts or just the regular cuisine salt? since now, sorry my 'brazilian english'
I also had issues with the saltiness. I would start with cutting the salt in half or just do a dash. The sodium citrate is supposed to have a sour taste, and SHMP is supposed to be relatively tasteless, so I personally wouldn't cut back those.
Hi, my sauce was nice and creamy but also very sour, it was not possible to eat it. What is the cause?
To SV or not SV. I just don't like cleaning the cheezy pot. I've made this several times, but the next time I do; I'm using the stick blender in the SV bag. Wish me luck.
I've made mac n cheese and reheated it in the micro and it has come out great.
probably the wrong salt. I've read this same comment on several other boards and there are other salts with a similar sounding name, but one is sour. You probably have the wrong salt.
Awesome recipe and method; I can't wait to try it out! Quick question: Kenji also has a couple of cheese sauce recipes, and he specifically uses evaporated milk over regular milk because he says the concentration of milk proteins helps to further stabilize the sauce. Have you guys ever tried using evaporated milk in your recipe? His recipe is different, though. He uses cornstarch, not the combination of sodium citrate and hexametaphosphate.
What's the benefit of adding the Hex with the citrate??
Sodium citrate allows the proteins in the cheese sauce to become more soluble while lowering the pH of the sauce, which creates a smooth emulsion without curdling. Though citric acid will also lower the pH, it will not work on proteins as sodium citrate does. Using citric acid will result in a soupy or grainy texture instead of a silky emulsion.
Sodium hexametaphosphate is a sequestrant that binds with calcium ions.
Made this yesterday. AMAZINGLY good.
Excellent! So glad to hear it!
Can't get enough of these details!
I don't mean to be dense, but what does SHMP do for the cheese sauce when it binds to the calcium ions?
I also noticed that it was too salty, after following the recipe to the letter. Next time, I plan on reducing the salt content to 1/4 teaspoon.
SHMP is a sequestrant which means "to withdraw from use". It prevents oxidation of fat, i.e. a preservative.
use a strong tasting beer, and by keeping your total liquids to the stated amount reduce milk and add beer. you are not going to want to reduce the milk by much because it provides the bonding proteins, which is why I suggested a stronger beer, something like Stout or a dark beer. you are going to have to play with it a bit. I would start by using 8 ounces of cheese, one 12 ounce can of evaporated milk,,(more protein less water) a tablespoon of cornstarch, and salt to taste. use two ounces of strong beer and 6 ounces of milk. add milk to thin to desired consistence and and beer to desired taste until I reached a total of the recommended 12 ounces. and you add the grated cheese a bit at a time stirring till it all melts. Watch your heat level get it too hot and it will break on you. which is the advantage of the Sous Vida you set it and it takes care of temperature. I use a double boiler since I can't afford the money for this device.
Use Sodium Citrate, not Citric Acid!
No, although I'm sure there's an expiration date on the packages because there has to be.
This is old, but that’s why he uses evaporated milk in his recipe. The additives in this recipe means you can just use regular milk. Personally I prefer the texture of what I call modernist cheese sauce to the starch thickened sauces (also, fewer carbs, which may be a concern for some).
