Go to the Recipe: Slider Buns
I am a novice using additives in bread doughs. I have not been able to obtain amylase, but I have diastatic malt powder. What would be the substitution ratio for this recipe? Thanks.
How would you deal with baking times/temps if the dough portion was cut in half for mini/canape size sliders?
you can use diastatic malt powder in place of fungal amylase, usually you add 0.1% to 0.5%. In general, start with less because adding too much is much worse than too little.
it's hard too say exactly (too many variables), but I usually would start by reducing the temp by ten degrees and then using a thermometer to measure the core temp to know when it's done (it should reach at least 95C).
It appears as if you used a 9x12" pan for the 15 buns. Is that correct?
Yes, that's about the size we used. The size of the pan is less critical than the spacing between the portions of dough balls.
When sealing the pan the buns bake in - what's the advantage of wrapping with foil rather than just sticking a sheet pan on top as a lid?
Just a tighter seal. But a pan on top would work if it sits flat enough.
Ohh no, my buns collapsed after cooking. Everything looked good until i cooked them. I went for 175c for 25min in a commercial oven and look what happened! Any ideas guys?
Enda
It looks as if they were over proofed, then collapsed when being wrapped possibly? Do you have before and after photos? What was your procedure?
I didn't take more pics. Is it possible that the "over proofing" happened because the temp was too high? I had them on top of an oven. I'll start again and take more pics.
Thanks,
Warm temperatures do decrease proofing times. Too hot of temperature(>115 °F), however can kill the yeast. Are you going by time or visually? Depending on the spacing ›they should just be touching when they are ready to bake. Ours were spaced on 55mm or 2.25in centers. Cheers
Just made these in preparation for a burger cook off tomorrow. I've tried a few different burger bun recipes (including the brioche buns off here) in the past and not found anything I'm happy with the taste of - all of the previous ones have had that overly yeasty, "not very good homemade bread" kind of taste, they just haven't been like "proper" bread. These though, I'm really happy with
They over proofed a bit so a couple deflated after cooking but the taste and texture is by far the best I've tried - a good level of sweetness but not overly so, these will be great with our supersmashed serious eats style patties tomorrow. What role does the amylase have in the process? breaks down the flour starch to sugar?
How was the cookoff? Great success??
I have naked baked my buns like this...this is indeed a new technique but I don't have amylase. Is that crucial?
I never placed them in the fridge....I always thought you need the warmth to activate the yeast at all times. This was my garlic bread.
on the slider bun, after adding the yeast, I noticed you didn't warm the milk to 120°F as per requisite in some recipes I read, is it okay? cause I'll try this recipe this weekend, Thanks!
So I had an epic fail with this recipe. I am an experienced baker so I take full responsibility for not anticipating the problems but I think they represent a helpful learning experience for anyone considering this recipe.
First, everything went exactly as planned through the final proofing. I ended up with about 19 rolls averaging about 45 grams each and had them in a 9x13 metal baking pan with fairly tall sides.
The rolls rose beautifully during the proofing phase and I applied the egg wash, wrapped in foil and placed in the oven.
The first epic fail arose when I went to remove the foil. The rolls expanded so much during the oven spring that the tops contacted the foil and stuck like glue. When I pealed back the foil, the tops of every roll came with, it literally pealed the tops off the rolls.
Second, the video says bake for 40 minutes then remove foil and bake 10 more but the written instructions say bake 25-30. I baked 25 then pulled the foil the n, even with the tops of the rolls pulled off, baked 10 more.
The second fail was that the rolls were not even close to done at that point (25 min in foil and 10 without). My mistake was not sticking a thermometer in. How do you judge rolls with no tops by sight. My mistake.
And, notwithstanding being in a nonstick 9x13 pan with oil sprayed on them, the rolls stuck like crazy to the sides and bottom of the pan. They needed a much more comprehensive layer of greasing, like butter or crisco smeared on the pan, not just a little spray oil.
Once I got them out of the pan, they quickly collapsed because while the bottoms and sides appeared golden, inside the starch structure was not set and they were not done.
But, all that said, the taste, of the little bits around the side I ate, was great.
So, lessons and improvements.
First, use a really deep sided pan, to avoid foil contact with the rolls, or maybe a little larger pan to let them spread more.
Second, grease the foil layer that goes right above the rolls for safety and to prevent sticking (though an egg/milk wash is a pretty sticky coating until baked).
Third, grease the pan with butter or a solid fat, including all the way up the sides.
Fourth, 25 minutes covered+ 10 uncovered s not enough time. I think the video time recommendation of 40 minutes covered is likely more accurate than the 25-30 covered in the written instructions (and making those consistent might be a worthwhile correction).
Overall, great flavor but the technique requires a little bit more care on my part.
Good luck.
BAsed on my experience, I don't think they are done at 25 minutes despite the golden color. I baked 25 covered 10 uncovered and the rolls had many raw spots where the starch had not solidified and mine collapsed once removed from the pan.
I used the sliders recipe to shape burger sized buns. I put all of the ingredients in my breadmaker and set it on the dough cycle, and then shaped the buns, let them rise for another 40 minutes or so, and then baked them in the oven at 350 degrees with a pan of water underneath the baking tray. After about 18 minutes of baking, I tested the temperature and they were ready. We had a great meal with these and my fiance loves the texture of the bread!
Hi guys,
I recently attempted making these buns but they ended up coming out very dense and crumbly. I followed the recipe exactly how it was written and they were nowhere near fluffy.
The only thing i didnt add was amylase (i just couldn't find it anywhere), would that be the reason they were dense?
Is it anything else? Over-kneading? Under-kneading? Not enough yeast?
I just have no idea where i could have gone wrong.
I hope you can help. Thanks
I deconstructed the Krystal Burger using these amazing buns. Local beef, Vidalia onions, Kraft American cheese, etc.
Threw on the griddle. Invited 20 ppl over and never left the stove.....Marvelous!
The buns we made following this recipe were the best soft enriched bread I have ever made. I have been baking breads for some time (I bake from Reinhart's books), but I have never been happy with my milk breads - until now. I served these buns as a side with haleem, which is a stew / chile made with various pulses, broken wheat, etc. slow cooked with meat for hours with spices and finally tempered with ginger, chillies and mint fried in ghee (clarified butter). Everyone was taken aback when they learned that the bread was homemade. I could not find amylase here in India (not in non-commercial quantities anyway) so skipped that. I also did not have a rectangular baking tin high enough to allow for a good oven spring - so I used a cast iron skillet and covered it in foil just like in sweet roll recipe here at ChefSteps. Head over to my album if you want to check out the rest of the pictures (both the buns and the haleem, and don't miss the GIFs!). Love from Calcutta!
Link: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/+InsiyaPoonawala/albums/6040753817927538497
The exact same thing is happening to me right now
Would that be 0.1% to 0.5% of flour weight? Thanks.
Well, this is my second try. It's soft, amazing, but I have made just 8 buns. Don't think it's not raised, just big. Next time may use toasted seeds. A big thank you. Just may say that I've not used the foil, just water on the oven. I'll follow every step and see the results.
I'm a bit confused about the amylase, and it's not that available in denmark. I only seem to be able to find it on liquid form. is this useable and should i have anything in mind when using this?
http://www.maltbazaren.dk/shop/alfa-amylase-enzym-25-2400p.html
http://grillbutikken.dk/bageartikler-bage-enzymer-bagesten-bagestal-mv/286-gb-enzym-booster-
Sorry, I tihink I've missed one step... The quantity of milk is 340gr or 290gr?
would it be possible to make this with fresh yeast? if so what should i mind when doing so and how should i scale it?
Came across this recipe due to a search (in vain) for a recipe to rival Martin's Potato Rolls, or at least match the soft, squidgy buns that make hamburgers so great. I can't afford to keep flying from London to New York for my fix, so I made these today. I went out and bought yeast with added ascorbic acid, ordered some amylase - the whole shabang. Followed the recipe exactly, including the 40 minute bake time in the video, as opposed to the suggested 25-30 on the webpage. Took them out of the oven after a 10 minute uncovered cook and they looked fantastic. After leaving for 5 seconds to get a cooling rack, they had deflated completely, and were gooey and raw in the middle, almost marzipan-like! What on earth went wrong?! There is nothing wrong with the temperature in my oven, and from the look of the gooey insides, I don't think a longer bake time would have helped...
Just uploaded a couple of pics to potentially help with a solution!
Hello,
why do you use amylase? Is it necessary? If I don't use it, the baking time will change, right?
290 ml for the bread recipe and 50 ml for the final glass mixed with one egg , total 340 ml
do you have to use amylase?
I've been trying this recipe for a while now, and everytime I use amylase it turns out this way. It doesn't matter how long I leave it in the oven for, it just gets drier the longer I leave them in there... but still raw in the middle. Without amylase turns out fine.
I figure its the amylase. I think its converting too much of the starch to sugar and not leaving any to give the bread structure to hold itself up. and collapses.
Great recipe especially it doesn't include any egg like others, super moist, made it today and was a hit. Thanks.
I made the slider buns today, and they came out lovely, but most other bun recipes i came across you don't put the dough in the fridge why do you do it, when i done it it took too long for the dough to come back and proof up for me, i also done 2 different lots of buns
1 lot i cooked to recipe
2nd lot i made bigger buns and making a tinfoil ring of a diameter of 10cm and weighing out 85g in each plus in stead of cooking them like you have done i cooked them uncovered 18 min @ 200degrees celsius, i also when egg washed it sprinkled Smoked Sea salt on top which gave it a really nice taste
Fantastic recipe!! I've worked with a decent amount of dough and this is incredibly easy for a novice if the recipe is followed. As people have mentioned make sure your pan is deep enough so the risen dough doesn't touch the foil, and the correct time is 40 mins covered (not 25-30) + 10 uncovered.
Here's a link to IG for a pic - http://instagram.com/p/xSmsP_GVlR/?modal=true
I made mine without and they came out great.
I had the exact same experience and I did it 4 times have you ever figured anything out?
I was wondering if its possible to take the "brioche burger buns" approach to the sliders and use foil rings to shape them. suggested portion adjustment, ring size etc.
Great recipe, real hit with the family. Haven't been able to source amylase yet where I live in the country (Australia) but substitued bread improver instead (which is possible the same thing?) using the amount reccomended on container (about 4g for this recipe) In any case everyone loves these and I'm making them now at least once a week. Never got to the part about waiting for 2 days though in sealed plastic bag...they were all gone within hours...I've now made double the recipe, hopefully a couple will survive the 2 days to taste the aged improvement.
A great and easy recipe... I followed right true, just with a little adjusment because i can not get amylase. I follow the advise of Malcolm McCaffery (member of the community) and use bread improver.(Malcolm Wrote: using the amount reccomended on container (about 4g for this recipe) In any case everyone loves these and I'm making them now at least once a week. Never got to the part about waiting for 2 days though in sealed plastic bag...)
Now i used for the hamburguer trio @restaurant, and i keep them in zipploc bags, and they stay fresh, soft and moist al ready for 5 days...
Man, I'm so frustrated with this recipe. It's the 6th time I try it. Is it absolutely necessary to use bread flour? All-purpose won't work? I can never get the dough to get firm. I've tried several ratios of hydration and nothing. At the end they will taste delicious but won't rise. Any thoughts?
I need your help! So, I bought bread flour and bread machine yeast, I have the amylase, everything. There's no way I could do it more exactly than what you do. Every time, my dough ends up like this. 20 mins, 30 mins, I left it almost an hour this time, and the little f'er is more batter than dough. I added more flour. Nothing. Any insights? Again, I will make this into a loaf and it will be delicious, but ugly, and more importantly, NOT A SLIDER.
Please help. Thanks.
Can't you just add some more flour?
You probable over-kneed the dough; take a look on when the dough first almost let go of the bowl and stop there.
Alpha amalyse is comes in various dilutions and 2 gms per 450 gms of flour seems like using a highly diluted enzyme.
Where can I buy the spray bottle shown in the video.Thanks
Curious what speed exactly you are mixing at each stage on the kitchen aid?
Williams - Sonoma carries the exact one ChefSteps uses.
Stainless-Steel Oil Sprayer Item: SKU #7004138 Price: $24.95
Hi Malcolm. I live in Australia too and haven't been able to source Amylase. Which brand of bread improver did you use?
Indeed, I think you are spot on - when tasting that collapsed bread it was totally sweet.
Haven't tried this recipe since 3 attempts back then, but now giving it a go without the amylase. I think Damian below explains the problem perfectly, perhaps the amylase we are using is too strong, or the quantity called for is excessively high.
Malcolm, those look perfect. I'm going to try the sesame seed next time. When do you add the seeds?
