Go to the Recipe: Dairy-Free Cocoa Gelato
In the process of making this today and I just realized that I have Iota and Kappa. Not that well versed on the carageenan's any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Like any other thickener or gelling compound, they need to be dispersed and then hydrated before they start to work. Usually, that means cold blending them into a liquid, and then heating them up. If you have a more specific question, I'm happy to try to answer it for you.
In making the Roasted Cocoa Gelato, I did not have the lamda carrageenan, only Iota and Kappa. Would either of them worked as a direct substitute or in a combination of each other?I used Kappa as a direct substitute and I needed to whisk as it cooled in the ice bath to help break it up.I messed up even further by using old cocoa and even older, say really old cocoa butter/bad cocoa butter and the flavor is not pleasant. Time to get some new products along with the Lamda...
lambda carrageenan is a bit unusual in that it does not gel, it only thickens. Kappa and iota do gel and that's why we don't use them in this recipe.
Lambda is spelled wrong in the ingredient list.
Thanks Roslyn. Fixed now.
Thanks, Chris! Question: is there a reason why this is referred to as gelato even though no milk is used (and technically eggs should be in it too, but that's debatable)? Just curious. Also, what method would you recommend other than a Pacojet to get the creaminess, consistency and density that gelato is known for? I'm just a regular home cook and would love to try this recipe (I already ordered the ingredients I'm missing) but I'm afraid of the churning process since I don't want a regular ice cream maker to get too much air into the product. The Pacojet got the gelato in this video absolutely BEAUTIFUL. I can tell how amazing the texture is and would love to get similar results in my home kitchen. Thanks!
Hi Chris
- originally posted by Guest
Hi ChrisAmazing work you guys are doing!Trying to figure out a good homemade sorbet/ice-cream stabiliser and the effects/properties of the various gums.It's actually quite difficult as there is very little in the way of writing out there. All the recipes i've seen use a wide variation of products, all in different ratios. Some use things like ultra tex/spherse, some use various gums like here, some just use alcohol such as vodka to prevent large crystals from forming.So on that note, some Qs:Why do you use different ratios of the gums between here and the egg-free vanilla one?Also, why omit the xanthan here?Is methylcellulose a good stabiliser as it does give a smoother mouth feel while reducing the size of ice crystals right?I actually commented on this topic before here and remember you saying gelatin was one of the best. Why not use here?Would you have an average weight ratio? Seems to be around 0.5% of the overall weight?Why not use dry ice in your dishes? It seems one of the easiest ways not to mention quickest (excluding say liquid nitrogen).You could make up your liquid mix, add it to a kitchen aid, slowly add ice pellets while turning and you've got super smooth sorbet in minutes. Any suggestions here?I just figure, if I could settle on one good formula (i guess two - a sorbet and an ice-cream one) then it would not matter what kind of sorbet you're making - be it passionfruit or even savoury such as avocado, you'd use a standard stabiliser mix.Any insights at all here would be much appreciated.Thanks
- originally posted by tony
Lot's of questions here, but I'll do my best:(1) Things that lower the freezing point of the mix tend to make a softer ice cream or sorbet. So alcohol, salt, or sugars. Glucose syrup, for example, is often used because it lowers the freezing point about twice as much as the same weight of sucrose, but is only half as sweet as sucrose.(2) Can't specifically say why xanthan was left out of this recipe, but the kitchen typically try's numerous stabilizers for a given recipe and decides on the blend that gives the mouthfeel they like the most. Using a blend of xanthan, LBG (or guar), and a carrageenan is important for dairy-based ice creams because the LBG or guar destabilize the dairy emulsion, but here there is no dairy so the blend is less critical.(3) Gelatin is very good stabilizer, but not everyone can consume gelatin.(4) Methocel is a good stabilizer, but it tends to make a slightly lighter, fluffier ice cream in my experience.(5) Dry ice is a very good technique (we have a demo of that technique elsewhere on the site) but since we have lots of liquid nitrogen around, plus an actual high-quality ice cream machine, we tend to use whatever technique for churning that strikes our fancy on a particular day.(6) 0.25% to 0.5% of the base weight is a typical usage lever for most stabilizer blends that aren't bulked up with something like maltodextrin to aid dispersal.Overall, for dairy-based ice creams I like using the xanthan, LBG, carageenan blend used in the vanilla ice cream base. For sorbet's gelatin is my preferred choice, but if unavailable I'll default back to a blend of xanthan and LBG.Hope this helps.
Excellent.Many thanks again Chris.The info, research, knowledge and experience here is just out of this world!!
- originally posted by Tony
Hi, 1 question when you pacotize this do you hold down the air release for the whole time since it's gelato or do you let the air go in? thanks
yes, we jam a little allen key in there too keep it down at all times.
- originally posted by Grant Lee Crilly
Grant, I tried it very delicious. What temp do you freeze to approx for the pacojet. Mine was coming out like snow and I think my freezer is too cold. Your vanilla ice cream recipe came out the perfect texture at the same temp. Thanks
I'd love to know this as well; I've got a home ice cream machine (slowchurning frozen bowl) and I've done the dry ice method with a stand mixer as well, and I'd love to know the best way to get that texture without a pacojet. I imagine that the idea is to incorporate less air? Maybe the stand mixer and dry ice with the paddle on the lowest speed?
Hi guys, can I use xanthan gum instead of lambda carrageenan? Can't get that stuff around here...
Any thoughts on alkalized versus non-alkalized cocoa powder?
Lambda can be replaced with something else, eg kappa?
How many grams must be replaced if possible?
can you make the gelato with milk instead of lambda or the beet gums
Hello! Simple question here: Can cocoa powder be roasted in microwave? Just like hazelnuts and similar?
thats a totally different result. Gums are "thickening" agents, milk is 80% water it will harden the freezes mix
that s interesting. Same question here. I know by the way that cocoa is alkalized so that it's better snd quickly soluble in (cold) water. So don't know if it s important in heated mixtures, maybe the taste is different. Just hope someone at chefsteps answers
Anyone think this would work with coffee in place of some or all of the cocoa?
Can you store roasted cocoa? If so, how? I wanted to roast the whole bag and then it would be ready at a moment's notice. Is that okay or will it go bad?
Hey Chris,
Will this work with Agar Agar? I'm from India where agar agar is used quite often in our local desserts, hence easily available. Considering agar agar is great for making fluid gels, I imagine it might work in this recipe? Do let me know.
I would really love to know a recipe for hard ice cream or Italian ice cream, any who knows the recipe please share. Another thing is do they use water in ice cream making because I tried some commercial recipes using cmc and gms plus diary products, but unfortunately the results were not fruitful. I need some advice because I want to start an ice cream business soon. And how to make ice cream with high % of over run to increase volume.
Hi, can I substitute xanthan gum for the two gums? If so how many grams would I have to sub it with?
You can use .25-.5 % xanthan gum to the total base. It will not have the same viscosity or mouthfeel as the LBG or the Carrageenan.
Wow, I’m kind of shocked by how good this is, and it just happens to be vegan! It is dark, dense, and so intensely chocolatey. The texture is incredibly smooth and it softens and melts perfectly, without any dairy or eggs. It has the same intensity as eating a bar of dark chocolate—a little goes a long way. The salt is very present, not in an unpleasant way but something to keep in mind.
For my first trial I used 50% roasted cocoa and 50% unroasted cocoa to tamp down the bitterness a bit because I was eating it without anything else to balance it. Otherwise, I followed the recipe exactly as written. I churned using the dry ice method on the lowest speed to avoid introducing much air. Next trial I’m going to bump the roasted cocoa up to 75% and start composing a dish around it.
"pipe tobacco" - you were not kidding. Hello, grampa.
I made this gelato with Valrhona cocoa powder, which is not Dutch processed. Wold this make any difference? I only roasted the cocoa for 1 hr 15 min because I noticed a burnt smell coming out of the oven. I churned the gelato using a Ninja CREAMi and my result was somewhat mixed. Texture was amazing like a chocolate truffle but flavor had a tint of burnt and bitter cocoa. Would this be avoided with Dutch processed Cocoa? Maybe next time I will only roast 25% of the cocoa and try to get DP cocoa. Lastly, I’m able to enjoy this batch by adding some whipped cream to each serving, which tones down the burnt bitter flavor. Overall great promising recipe.
James Hoffman in his YouTube channel has a coffee variation based on this recipe. Title of the video: "An Experimental Coffee Ice Cream (That´s Delicious). I have tried it using a Ninja CREAMi and it’s amazing.
Does valrhona have unprocessed cocoa powder? I don't think so... The recipe is nice but I would never bake cocoa powder. If you want, try and bake a small portion and leave the rest cocoa powder unbaked. Just to give this smoked sensation. For me no reason to. Also I prefer using gelatin for sorbets
What would be the amount of 200 bloom gelatin in this recipe if we use gelatin instead of stabilizers? Thank you very much!
If we replace stabilizers with 200 bloom gelatin in this recipe what would be the amount? Thank you very much 😊
I found this recipe because the reference in James Hoffman's YouTube video. I just made it in a Ninja Creami and the texture when it was done "churning" looked like cookie crumbs; I thought I'd done something wrong. However, the mouthfeel was still smooth, but I worried that somehow the cocoa powder had come out of the mixture. I didn't notice any burnt flavor, but then I had turned my oven down to 290°F. A little of this goes a long way. I think it work best as part of a composed dessert.
If you run it back through one more time it should come together. Just needs to warm up a touch.
