Go to the Recipe: Hi-Tech Mushroom Burger
This recipe relies on Activa RM + Sodium caseinate or micellar casein, both of which are not vegan products. While it is simple enough to execute this recipe at a large scale, I don't think it would be possible to fully convert this recipe to be vegan-friendly as written.
But! I do have a potential idea to explore: You can use Activa TI (or Activa WM) instead. These are vegan products, consisting of only the enzyme+maltodextrin. For a protein substrate, I would explore powders like soy protein isolate, since these are relatively flavorless, and would play nicely with the mushrooms. I haven't tried this idea myself, so there would be some trial and error before you got to a formulation/combination of enzyme+protein powder you like.
Hope this helps!
I would like do the mushroom burger on a large scale. Where can I buy the vegan version of the binder does anyone know what and a good brand
yes! you can buy it at Kalustyans/Marhaba: https://foodsofnations.com/products/sodium-caseinate-e469
Is it still possible to buy sodium caseinate anywhere? Modernist pantry has dropped it from their catalog.
A chef friend told me I could get away with using much less meat glue. Any thoughts on this? When I read about meat glue in this website it says 0.25% of weight.
Modernist pantry sells the product in small quantities. https://modernistpantry.com/products/moo-gloo-rm-transglutaminase.html
Yeah it's sort of a bummer that activa is hard to find in quantities that are more suitable for home cooks. Can't personally vouch for this service, but I found this smaller-batch activa rm seller online. https://foodsofnations.com/products/transglutaminase-activa-rm
Looks like they're picking it up from Kalustyan's and shipping it. If you try it and it works out for you, let us know!
Yeah it's sort of a bummer that activa is hard to find in quantities that are more suitable for home cooks. Can't personally vouch for this service, but I found this smaller-batch activa rm seller online. https://foodsofnations.com/products/transglutaminase-activa-rm Looks like they're picking it up from Kalustyan's and shipping it. If you try it and it works out for you, let us know!
I'd really like to try this, but paying $130 for 2.2 lbs of Activa RM just to give this a taste seems silly (I was unable to find any other maker of transglutaminase that offers lesser volumes). I love the content, but this one falls into the will-never-try-this category, unfortunately.
If using micellar casein instead of sodium caseinate, should you bump the salt content up?
Made exactly as in video with same ingredients, portions even same brand of casein and moo gloo, but patties did not set up even after 24 hours in the fridge, remaining mushy. Any ideas where I went wrong? I live at altitude- wonder if that could be the issue.
The recipe is vegetarian. It is not vegan.
I'm trying to see the point of this recipe if it's not vegetarian. It's a great method but it seems the reason you would want to make it would be for vegetarians, but it's not vegetarian.
Glad to hear Rob! Yea, when we looked back at the old method we thought there has got to be an easier way to do this.
I don’t even like mushrooms but I’m impressed by the new recipe steps. Quite a bit more accessible. Will make it for my wife and keep you posted
Use the vegan version of the enzyme Activa TI and an alternate protein (sodium casinate is a milk protein). Soy protein, pea protein, and fava bean proteins typically have enough lysine to bond.
I recommend soy protein isolate (if you eat soy), pea protein isolate or fava bean protein concentrate as they all contain enough lysine for the enzyme to bind. Moo Glu also has a TG enzyme without animal ingredients: https://www.amazon.com/Transglutaminase-Meat-Glue-Formula-50g/dp/B009FIH3UI/ref=sr_1_2_sspa
Sorry where do you get this crap from ?
Just made individual Italian style sausages with this method. Took some casein/activa mixed with water, brushed onto tofu skin, and rolled the sausages in that, then the plastic. They're doing the cold set now.
Used this method to make a vegetarian chorizo with sun dried tomatoes, mushrooms, tofu, and pepitas. Made great tacos!
Hi there how to make this recipe vegan???
Made a vegetarian breakfast sausage: roasted two half pound packages of mushrooms, 1 regular package firm tofu, 1 green apple, and enough roasted walnuts to make all of this add up to 500g. I used 25g each TGM/sodium caseinate. Added dried sage and breakfast sausage spice (fennel, thyme paprika, etc). Cooked up great with grits!
I made these, and I think I roasted my mushrooms too long because I ended up with much less than 1 kg after roasting. I was able to halve the activa mixture, and it worked fine. Now I will weigh my roasted mushrooms/veg/cooked pulse (whatever) and scale the activa mix accordingly. Going to post my variations here.
I don't have anything against msg, but I used some marmite, fwiw.
In theory, yes. You may need to decrease the cooking times, since core temperature will be reached faster than the whole log.
I am interested in making this recipe but do not want to make the plastic wrap cylinder. Can I use a burger press instead and make individual patties? I figure that and vacuum sealer bags should be sufficient to remove the air and form a tight seal. Thanks!
Probably around 15-20 minutes at a higher temperature of 400-450°F, but this is speculation. Until they are brown and sizzling and piping hot.
Not really sure if pea protein will act the same as a binding agent but, flax meal and water will act as a glue to bind the mushrooms.
Also, if I decided to, say, cook these in meatball form in the oven, how long should I cook them?
Seeing as how sodium caseinate is non-vegan, could I just use any plant protein instead? Pea protein, perhaps?
Youre like an angel, who has flown in on a cloud to part this knowledge, thank you so much kind angel ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Have you ever seen the veggie burger made by Shin Etsu with tylose (I think that's what they use)? I'd be curious to see something like that. Still going to try these.
Is there a substitution for Sodium Caseinate and Activa RM? Im from Mexico and those ingredients are very hard to get even online and complicated to purchase from US to be imported to Mexico.
Doing lines of random powders was always more of a front of house thing!
@Olen Several years back, the chefs here recommended using soy protein if you're trying to keep it vegan.
There have been some doozies out that, and Linda, i think yours takes the cake. Tell me Linda, do you smell every single ingredient you've ever used? Flour, salt, sugar, MSG? If you do, to what end? If there is any type of contamination, you won't smell it. So is it just the TGA that freaks you out? Probably shouldn't open up the bag of powder and take a big snort of it. Chefs smell and taste what they're cooking, but i have yet to meet a chef that does lines of their various powdered ingredients.
A couple of comments to the article, and some replies: For one thing, there is a conflict if you suggest using a particular variety of Activa TGA because it does not contain milk proteins...but then you suggest using sodium caseinate...because it is made from milk.A pure vegan will want to use some other protein powder that contains a protein that TGA binds. As for TGA's dangers...for the most part, it is not dangerous, especially after it does it "glue job", because the result is the same substance that is contained in your body. On the other hand, you shouldn't inhale it. That is a "no-no". A mask is suggested, not that it is particularly dusty. Also, it must be kept dry or it will be ruined. Usually, those who buy large quantities will quickly remove the quantity they need, then vacuum-seal the rest and store in the freezer. BTW, this is pretty slow-acting glue. You do not need to worry about gluing fingers together like with super-glue.
Transglutaminase really scares me. (It's the Activa) As I understand it, it is an enzyme that works most efficiently to bind proteins together at warm temperatures, eg around 35-37C, in moist conditions at neutral pH. It works extremely well at binding the whey protein into a gel. My concern is, what does it do to the lungs of the person working with it? There's no mention of face masks in your instructions, no warniings about sniffing it (and chefs love to smell what theya re working with). Are chefs working with it heading for pneumoconiosis?
I am just a regular home cook. I haven’t made these yet but being from Louisiana seems like some additional seasoning would be needed.
Here's Kenji's take on MSG:
https://www.seriouseats.com/2019/01/ask-the-food-lab-the-truth-about-msg.html
Yes but they specifically mention using TI instead of RM to "make it vegan" even though the caseinate means it's still not vegan!
Just wanted to make a comment on yield. I cooked down my mushrooms significantly (roasted in slices, then chopped and put in a pan to get out even more). I started with three pounds (1362 g) and ended up with 485 g. Made the bean burger at the same time and I got about three times as many patties. For the cost of mushrooms I wouldn't do this again - worked out to maybe $3/patty. Perhaps a different mushroom variety with less water would have produced a more economical yield.
2 or 3 more actually.
Kat the sodium caseinate is high and in protein, protein is used in this recipe to bind the Activa to the mushrooms. Activa only binds proteins and the mushrooms don't have enough themselves. With that said, you might try another vegan based protein like ground TVP in a fine powder, or another vegetable based proteins you could make into a powder.
So I've read all the posts and still have a question: as a vegan I cannot use the sodium caseinate. And apparently using just the TI alone will not create a "springy/snappiness" as described. Is there an answer to the question of finding an alternative vegan binder?
Can I substitute mushrooms with quinoa?
Hello, so, if i want to make this Hi-Tech burger or the black beans one, what can i use as a substitute for sodium caseinate and activa?
Can i use Micellar Casein Protein instead Sodium Caseinate ?
Where can i find Sodium Caseinate ?
I think they wrap another layer of plastic before bath.
A practical question:
Holes must be punched in the tight wrap to get the air out, Ok
I didn't prepare well enough: this recipe takes a whole (home-sized) pouch of sodium caseinate, and a whole pouch of TG! I got most of the way through preparing the mushroom mix and realized I didn't have nearly enough TG. I wound up using 14g, and the whole 50g of sodium caseinate, with 850g mushrooms and 150g black beans (I let my mushrooms go longer in the oven, and they dried out further). SV, chill, grill as directed. They came out pretty good anyways, not too mushy and pretty good flavor. I'd compare the texture to a really rare hamburger.
I think I'll come back to these later with the right ingredients ready and see if they're even better.
The misunderstanding of MSG, it is just a concentrate of seaweed / kombu that you mention. It should be used in small amounts, just like salt. To say it is a drug, well food is a drug and if MSG used correctly it is probably safer than most over the counter pharmaceuticals that people take for the common cold.
Just a side-note, I would probably use a bit of trassi, bagoong or fish sauce and not MSG.
Science says … I know these are Wikipedia quotes but … food is also chemistry …
Monosodium glutamate (MSG, also known as sodium glutamate) is the sodium salt of glutamic acid, one of the most abundant naturally-occurring non-essential amino acids.[Manuf. 1] MSG is found in tomatoes, Parmesan cheese, potatoes, mushrooms, and other vegetables and fruits.[1]
MSG is used in the food industry as a flavor enhancer with an umami taste that intensifies the meaty, savory flavor of food, as naturally occurring glutamate does in foods such as stews and meat soups.[2]This was first prepared by Japanese biochemist Kikunae Ikeda, who was seeking to isolate and duplicate the savory taste of kombu, an edible seaweed used as a base for many Japanese soups. MSG as a flavor enhancer balances, blends and rounds the perception of other tastes.[3][4] It is particularly popular in Korean, Japanese and Chinese cuisine.
Glutamic acid (abbreviated as Glu or E) is one of the 20-23 proteinogenic amino acids, and its codons are GAA and GAG. It is a non-essential amino acid. The carboxylate anions and salts of glutamic acid are known as glutamates. In neuroscience, glutamate is an important neurotransmitter that plays the principal role in neural activation.[4]
Although they occur naturally in many foods, the flavor contributions made by glutamic acid and other amino acids were only scientifically identified early in the twentieth century. The substance was discovered and identified in the year 1866, by the German chemist Karl Heinrich Ritthausen who treated wheat gluten (for which it was named) with sulfuric acid.[5] In 1908 Japanese researcher Kikunae Ikeda of the Tokyo Imperial University identified brown crystals left behind after the evaporation of a large amount of kombu broth as glutamic acid. These crystals, when tasted, reproduced the ineffable but undeniable flavor he detected in many foods, most especially in seaweed. Professor Ikeda termed this flavor umami. He then patented a method of mass-producing a crystalline salt of glutamic acid,monosodium glutamate.[6][7]
I made those and they were wonderful. Super savory.
Just made them today; 75% button mushrooms, 25% shitake...I also added smoked Maldon and smoke Spanish paprika for added flavor. 9/10. I have to say that this surprisingly simple recipe has exceeded my expectations. Good work.
