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How long are you able to leave the sealed burgers in the sous vide for before serving them? In other words, can you seal a batch prior to a party and serve them at different times as guests arrive throughout the night?
Good content here, certainly worth the $10, but I think you're underestimating how much detail your customers are looking for. It's great to know about all the binders that didn't work, but how about meat cuts? and fat percentages? I get that a binder is required for most Hamburger blends, but if you ask your butcher for a blend above 25% (and why the F#(*# not) I don't think a binder is required. Cool in ring and go.
I've (accidentally) done a 24hr burger cook at 137. Results were good. You'd be fine.
Can someone tell me why you decided on "pre-sear" vs "post-sear"?
Totally agree with you!!! I also think that the fat amount is really important even to achieve a juicier patty.
I agree that there ís more room for information regarding the burger patty: prefered cuts, ratio of said cuts in the patty and maybe alternate recipes for other proteins. Thanks
Fat certainly adds succulence (somewhat different from juiciness), but if you don't handle the fat correctly, then it melts out during cooking and just makes the burger taste greasy.
From the development work I did with Heston Blumenthal for the In Search of Perfection burger recipe, we aimed to get around 20% fat content by using a blend of highly marbled, tough cuts of meat—a blend of chuck and well-marbled short rib were excellent. This is the best way to get fat into your burger, because it's already emulsified into the meat by nature.
You can also grind suet and mix it into the ground meat to up the fat level, but you need to be careful to grind the fat separately from the meat and very cold, then gently fold it into the patty to avoid giving the burger patty a sausage-like chewy texture (not my ideal burger texture). As you increase the fat level above 20%, the meat has a very difficult time sticking together, and binders become really important. Above 30% and it's impossible to keep the fat from melting out of the patty without carefully emulsifying the fat into the meat as you would when making an emulsion-style sauce (think Frankfurter texture).
Personally, I like to avoid all binder (including adding salt to the meat until after the cooking, since salt helps extract proteins from the ground meat that will also make the meat texture chewy). But this leaves the burger very crumbly, and some folks prefer it to be a bit more cohesive. This was Ben's preference when developing these recipes, hence his recommendation for binders.
Jaethan, I tried to tackle your fat % question in my comment to Valeria below. Happy to discuss it more. As for meat blends, the basic concept to keep in mind is that muscles that work harder in life will contain more proteins that contribute to the "meaty" flavor during cooking. This is to say that the toughest muscles add the most meaty flavor, and since you're going to grind the meat the toughness isn't really an issue anymore. So chuck, short rib, rump, and even oxtail can all be great.
Fat in the meat cut adds the "beefy" flavor, and long-endurance muscles tend to have more marbling since fat is their fuel in life. So, again, big muscles like shoulders and legs do well for getting lots of succulent and beefy fat into your burger patty.
Now comes the subjective stuff, how much fat is too much? As you increase the amount of fat the burger becomes more tender and succulent, but starts to crumble easily. It also starts to add a very strong beef flavor that not everyone likes. For me, I like around 20% fat, with all of the fat coming from the meat itself (versus grinding suet and adding it to the mix). I really like a 50/50 blend of chuck and short rib meat. I'm not a fan of meat aged much over 20 days in my burger (too nutty in flavor). But that's just me.
Thoughtful replies, thanks for this. I've been surprised how eager my butcher has been to indulge my own experimentation, for those that haven't done it before, don't be afraid to ask for specific cuts, percentages, and grinds. (if they don't want to do it, find someone that will)
Hi Chris, Great class... Tried the "Beef burger patties" recipe with some left over "Coffee steak" from the night before (did use the nutty 28 dried aged ribeye though ;-)..... added the "caramelised onions" and some blowtorched Dutch Cheese (no time to create the "Melty cheese slices").... Kewpie mayo on thick slices of self-made sourdough bread (un-crusted with the same ring mold as used for the patty) and toasted in the "Coffee Butter" for aesthetics. Although I am normally my worst critic... Best burger ever...!! And that wasn't just according to me! (sorry no photo proof, as we were way too hungry.) Thanks!
Great stuff here, guys. The only thing that worries me a little is the quick sous vide technique. Am I correct in saying that the recommended time/temp does not pasteurize the patty?
I do believe Heston B had it right in his philosophy to limit the thickness of the assembled burger so that it is easy to bite into. That means I just don't use big fluffy buns anymore. I use regular sliced sandwich bread and stamp out a circle with a ring cutter. Then I fry the bread in clarified butter to my preferred crispiness and color (think English Breakfast)...its dynamite!
I'm looking forward to my Searzall arriving, I'll obviously be using it to sear the patties (when charcoal grilling is not practical anyway), but it is also probably going to be the best way to melt the cheese slices onto the patties bar none.
That sounds pretty darn awesome!
Actually, 62 °C for 15 minutes is going to do a lot to pasteurize your patty. Of course, if you prefer a somewhat lower temperature, the degree of pasteurization will be reduced (although provided you are cooking above 53–54 °C you will still be reducing the risk of food borne pathogens in your burgers).
Pre-sear triggers the flavor-creating Maillard reaction. During the sous vide cooking step, those flavors continue to develop at the lower cooking tempeature. The result is a more meaty flavor in the finished burger. It's worth a side-by-side comparison. We've talked about this before at ChefSteps and you can find out more here: https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/presearing-for-sous-vide
Not sure if there is a way to rotate the photo.
This was taken at a burger shop in Tokyo called Burger's Base. They use a torch to melt the cheese. It's a great idea. You get melty cheese without applying too much heat to the burger.
Searzall far superior for this application.
You mean in a bag in a water bath? i wouldn't leave them much beyond 25 minutes, they will over cook if you leave them in the water bath. You can bag them up and have them ready to drop however.
Hello,
I am going to try the Katsu-style burger at the weekend. I am unclear on one thing, however. Do I apply the coating to cooked burgers or to raw patties?
Thanks,
Adam
(Also, I noticed that the recipe scaler for the beef patties doesn't change the number of burgers that is produced - it stays at seven)
Is that even available for purchase atm?
Personally, I'd kill for suggestions on how to make a nice fish patty.
We have just started making our own bread at the restaurant I work at. I wanted to find a good bun recipe and tried this one about four times until we got it right. Once we did, I had a friend weld me together some stainless steel ring molds to fit a full sheet pan (20 molds all together). I am making a lot more and now we are serving all of our burgers with this bun. I have had numerous people say that it is the best burger they have ever had. The burger patty itself is a utilization of all of our meat scraps from trimmings (filet mostly, strip and ribeye). I really believe that the bun has elevated our burger to its new status. Thanks for the recipe!
Guys, i need some fancy, modern, awesome names for a burger shop, can anyone give a try
Would you recommend a pre and post sear for these? Or would the risk of overcooking the patty be too great?
Sorry for doubling up, but forgot about this section.
I opted for just chuck rather than adding brisket or short rib, but I added about 10% bone marrow... It worked wonderfully. Depth of flavour was lovely.
Do i need to use amylase? is there any way to avoid it? I guess enzyme which deconstruct flour is hard to replace but there must be some solution.
Will they overcook in a holding cabinet just the same? And by overcook do you mean texture or also color (myoglobin oxidation)?
I was interested in developing a burger program for my restaurant to be able to sear 8oz burgers ahead of service and batch cook throughout service in a combi as needed then hold warm in a cvap. For the pickup just melt cheese. BC Our demand is much higher than our capacity at peak times.
Does this sound like a good idea to you guys? Both food safety wise and flavor/texture wise? 30% of our sales mix is burgers so this would help alot if it could work.
Hey Chris I asked a question above but before I saw this comment. I am hoping to create a burger system at my Tavern because our kitchen and grill is super tiny and we do a ton of burgers that exceed our capacity during peak times.
I was hoping to sear a ton of patties off before service and chill on wire racks. Then during service, cook batches as needed at 350 F or so to a probe temp of 120 F with a combi program and then hold warm in a cvap to be picked up quicker. Are there significant food safety concerns here if they are turning over quickly as we sell so much? What is the max time you would recommend them to be held in the warming cabinet? Would the myoglobin oxidize even at warm temps? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
What kind of Amylase using in the burger bun recipe? What I found on the online shop here in Thailand are alpha amylase , beta amylase and beer brewing amylase which consists of both alpha and beta. Since I don't have the amylase at the moment, I use malt powder I bought from Singapore instead. The bread turned out soft and has a very nice oven spring but the texture is a bit darker from the colour of the malt powder.
How could someone incorporate beer in the process of making the cheese? would quantities in the salts change?
Can i freeze the buns? For how much time will they last in fridge? (Vacuumed)
What is the address to the online shop in Thailand? I also live here and have been looking for a place that sells these things.
Hi! Got some brioche baking questions: 1- I scaled the recipe to 1/2, however, I ended with a yellow sticky dough. In my mind, burger buns need to be soft and nice and white. Can someone help?
2- When you say x grams of egg, how many eggs are we talking about? I could just measure the amount of eggs and get x grams, however it doesn't feel right when I am adding all those egg yolks in.
3- Also on eggs, are we talking about only the yolk? or is it both, the egg white and the yolk?
4- I cannot find amylase anywhere. Can I skip?
5- Can the flour be any kind of flour?
Thanks!
I am still searching for the perfect burger; two tips I have picked up along the way that have stood me in good stead are:
1: Use a square of cling film to form the patties, loosely form it into a ball then twist the top closed and press the burger flat. The cling film ensures the patties are uniformly round.
2. Before pre-searing the burger, spread a layer of english mustard on both sides and cover it gererously in salt and pepper. This tip I saw on TV from a NY burger restaraunt, it helps create a better curst on the meat.
Is safe to eat a burguer stored refrigered uncovered for how long? I have some from 4 days ago, that are getting drier with no signs of spoil... am I making dry aged burguer patties? Lol
