Go to the Article: Decoding Tough and Tender Cuts
If you haven't tried 72hr/ 54C Short Ribs, you don't know what you are missing...
These are outstanding as well:
http://www.chefsteps.com/activities/bbq-beef-short-ribs
Can even be finished in the oven for something rustic and delicious. But the 72hr/ 54C short ribs... Can't explain, but I think it's love.
First time I made them, I didn't even plate up. I just stood at my cutting board for like 20 minutes gorging myself. Was somewhat stunned I made something that good.
Mmmmmm, mammoth chops.........
This is really good information that has wide applicability, but don't allowances need to be made for the age of the animal. My experience has been that lamb and veal are naturally more tender (for equivalent muscle) and my understanding was that this was because there is less use of the muscle over the course of their shorter lives.
You are absolutely right! Veal and very well-aged beef need less time than your usual supermarket fair. And older animals, like mutton, need more time — if you found someone that sells such old animals. Luckily the meat (from all species) sold today is from younger animals than were sold a generation ago, so the above advice holds pretty well unless you shop at a specialty butcher.
I cooked a cool smoked pork belly for 72 hours. I finished it by slicing and searing for a couple of minutes. Good stuff!
Is that a mammoth in a Christmas sweater I see??
I think it would be really helpful to add a listing (e.g. table with columns, or left to right) of tough to tender meats. While some parts are more obvious where they came from on the animal body (e.g. "shoulder"), others are less so ("shank", "chuck") .... and by less obvious, I mean I don't know where it comes from, or if it would be tender or tough.
I cooked a piece of brisket for 36 hrs. at 65C. It was tender but still presented some resistance to the knife. It could have cooked for at least 12 more hours. But texture was not the greatest problem. The meat was extremely dry. When cooked the sous-vide bag was full of juices but the meat was super dry. The brisket had been in the freezer for 2 months. I wonder if that is the reason why it was so dry ?
The traditional method for cooking tough cuts is braising. A process in which meat is cooked together with multiple ingredients that compose the braising liquid (which is used later as base for the sauce). When this happens my understanding is that the meat contributes flavor to the braising liquid and the liquid to the meat. All the recipes I have seen in Chef Steps cook the meat practically by itself; sometimes with a little oil and aromatics. Why is the meat not cook together with a liquid ?
I would love for someone to explain why the meat was so dry. This happens regularly in a crock pot but I was under the impression that the sous vide technique would preclude this effect.
Lukas, I cook a lot of authentic BBQ and in my experience any Beef or Pork that has been frozen prior to slow cooking will be extremely dry when finished. I also find that the collagen does not break down the same and the meat will be tough. I have done extensive reading on, and cooking of BBQ, and have come to the conclusion that Frozen meat is not conducive to BBQ/slow cooking. I can only guess that this might be same for sous vide and previously frozen beef and pork. Next time try a fresh cut as this might help
http://mentalfloss.com/article/57100/time-250000-year-old-mammoth-was-served-dinner
The design of this post and video is phenomenal. Love the new opening for the video!!
Great work guys.
Was the brisket vacum sealed when frozen? I would look in that direction for juicier meats. Freezing meats dries/dehydrates them unless vacum sealed. ChefSteps please confirm.
That butcher was not giving you correct information. You can buy "ground chuck," "ground round," or "ground sirloin", and if so labeled that's the cut that must legally be used. If you buy just "ground beef," it can come from any cut on the animal. Brisket and rib meat are not normally used in hamburgers, so that may have been a specialty of the house. Any good butcher should be able to prepare a special mix for you; it's just a question of cost. As for being told that it's "all chuck" -- I'd look for a different butcher.
Where is that amazing 72hr/ 54C Short Ribs recipe?
You might find this helpful:
http://aht.seriouseats.com/archives/2009/10/the-burger-lab-best-burger-blend-profiles-of-eight-cuts-of-beef.html
I have always slow cooked around 90C for never longer than a day for any given tough cut and am always pleased with the tenderness/juiciness result - sous vide, bbq, braising....
What is the advantage of extending the cooking time and lowering the temperature? I only ask because I don't see the need to sacrifice so much extra time and energy. Thanks everyone!
is a 72 hour short rib that much better than say a 24 hour short rib?
Great job. Explain cuts in 58 secs is not an easy thing.
Definetly time to get a different butcher. I love small, independent butchers... it was a dying craft but has become a new, artisnal specialty increasingly run by people passionate about their work. Those are all different cuts and your butcher likely didn't want the hastle of grinding meat specially for you. Chuck is the front shoulder of the animal while the brisket is front undrportion of the cow (in Canada, a whole brisket also extends to include the belly) while short ribs are from the rib section, of course (the front-mid section along the top of the animal). I am still tinkering with my burger blend and my butcher not only is happy to supply me, but is often quite enamaroued with a customer who is as interested in the product as they are. I tend to use a blend of short rib, chuck and prime rib dry aged an extra long period but also enjoy brisket. Good luck.
Great video! So nerd question. An old school lab technique to extract the monomeric form of collagen was to use Acetic acid and refrigerate for a couple days. The concentration of acetic acid (vinegar) was around 3 to 5% if I remember correctly (trying in convert in my head from M to % so I may be way off). Is this one potential reason for the inclusion of vinegars in some recipes and/or use of vinegar based basting solution in BBQ? Thanks!
Certfiedangusbeef.com for retail cuts pdf chart.
I got this from a BBQ pitmaster I knew well: Want to know what is tender on the animal? Get down on your hands and knees and crawl around. Pay attention to muscles you AREN'T using in laying down, getting back up and crawling.
The muscles you aren't using much will be more tender than the ones involved in walking, laying down and getting up.
Yes, and you can get more controlled results replacing vinegar with fresh papaya or fresh pineapple, run through a blender and added to the marinade.
Low and slow cooking, (BBQ, as opposed to grilling), wants to keep the internal temperature of the meat below the boiling point of water. Thus slowly melting fat and collagen OUT of the meat while retaining moisture. 18 to 24 hours at 225-250F in a bbq pit, will give you a 15 lb beef brisket that is fork-tender, lovely, smokey, meaty flavored.
I agree. Freezing pops the muscle cell walls. The water retained in the cells of fresh meat is released when frozen and is just floating around between muscle fibers when thawed. Drains out with the collagen and fat. (I've also got a lot of years in BBQ; still burp smoke rings when I have the opportunity!)
This is a GREAT trick for "tenderizing" but papaya is a different mechanism of action.
Nerd alert : For the fruit that contain the enzyme papain (papaya, pineapple), it is a cysteine protease, or a protein that "cuts" other proteins at amino acids with large side groups. This will usually break down the trimeric form of collagen into a range of different sizes some will stay in the trimer form some will naturally reduce to shorter monomers. Vinegar denatures the higher order structure of acid soluble collage. This will leave the full length monomer chains intact (instead of broken down by a protease) and can extract up to ~85% monomer/dimer.
In theory, the length of the collagen chains present will affect the molecular properties. In the case of acid denaturation of collagen versus protease could be huge (molecular joke). The use of enzymes on this class of proteins is very effective for connective tissue break-down the isolate collagen and other protein will not have the same "gelling" or mouthfeel. On the other hand, acid extraction/denaturation can extract a higher percentage or intact (longer) connective tissues. These molecules will retain the ability to gel and have a different mouth feel. However, acid denaturation (vinegar) may not be as effective as enzymatic digestion in "tenderizing" (esp. of acid insoluble connective tissue). It is probably more important to have a better aging and or low/slow if you are only going to try vinegar (acid) denaturation.
And you can always combine the two (i.e. wet aging with vinegar base/marinade (?)).
After all this academic stuff, I still love canned venison neck meat on toast that doesn't use anything except for pressure cooker to tenderize.
Have a great day!
-Eric
I have a question regarding game. As I understood "Modernist Cuisine" the enzymatic activity in game meat is higher than in other mammals. This results in mushy mouthfeel if cooked for a long amount of time. I never tried a tougher game cut using sous vide. Anyone experienced?
thats interesting. ive been having problems getting good results with sous vide. i was wondering if the fact that its kosher meat might be a problem since its been salted. this could be another issue, i think most of the meats i get have been previously frozen.
i have been emailing every damn beef assosiation and getting no response. im in canada and we dont have some of those american beef cuts or if we do,they are called something different. here in quebec its even worse. almost nobody knpws what a tri-tip is. finally found a butchern who says we call it a bavette. is there anyone on the planet who can map usa cuts to canadian cuts ????
I've question also about another type of cut: the eye-of-the-round. Has anyone ever tried to do eye-of-the-round in sousvide? It is a normally dry cut and even if you do it in slow cookers it is difficult to achieve a good result. I thought it would be nice to try it sousvide. I researched and I cooked it @ 57 C for 48 hours. I also tried both pre-searing and not pre-searing. The result was terrible!!! Do you think I should reduce the time, the temperature or both? I've added to the bag some fat also, since it is very lean. Any clue of what to do with this cut? Love everything about CHEFSTEPS!!! Thank you!
I haven't tried sousvide on the eye or round but I have had great success searing and roasting. Sear it on as high heat as you can achieve but just brown the outside. Roast it in an oven around 400 F cook to 105-110 F and let it rest. I usually roast it on a bed of herbs. The only time I haven't had extremely moist flavorful eye or round is if I cook it too far. I think that 57 C is taking it way too far. If I was going to slow cook it I'd go lower or much less time.
I love the wooly mammoth graphic!
thanks
you should try the 73 hour shortrib, it's mind-bending.
I am planning to SV a large pork neck. It has got even thickness and it is 3,2kgs total and no bone. However I am getting abit confused in terms of the best temperature/duration of cooking. I plan to serve it sliced, so hence I do not want the"pulled pork" texture. I am planning now to SV at 68deg C for 24hrs. What do you think? Does anyone have experience to the contrary and better suggestions?? Your input greatly appreciated
Hello Bjorn, with Pork neck collar, do a 85 C for 5.5 Hours. Season or brine the Boston Butt however you like it.
Hi All.... what would be a Tri Tip? and How long would you recommend to cook it via sous vide?
Thank you in advance
Very late response, but eye-of-round is roast beef and I use if for sandwiches. I rub it with mustard, salt, pepper, and whatever else I have - onion powder, chili powder, paprika etc. - sear it up and SV it at 54.5 C for 30 hours. I have a slicer and use the eye of round for roast beef sandwiches. Rye bread, jack cheese, pickles and coleslaw. Pretty tasty. It's a pretty bland cut for lopping off a 1/2" slice for a main course IMO, but for a sandwich the cut is perfect.
Hi there!
So, If i want to make a beff burger, and use diferent cuts of the animal, and that I want 20% of fat on the burguer, where will the tender cuts make the diference? Would really make the diference in taste? knowing that you can find beff cuts close to that percentage of fattness? because making a burger of a noble, low fat cut is not viable (price, texture and there is no need of killing the beef twice). What kind of cuts do you recommend?
thank you!
hi there,
What should be the sous vide temperature for cooking venison loin?
Any recommendation on preparing wild rabbit with a SV?
Veeery helpfull to summarize the hard ansoft musclrs! Can't forget the picures ! Thanks, I need to work now on temperatures. My first experience was pork cheeks 80 C 8 hour! They were ver nice .... next batch will try 65 C and double the time. What di yiu suggest???
I’ve got a rump steak in the freezer I’m going to try with my new Joule. It’s a popular cut in France for the ubiquitous “steak-frites” (I *think* their “rumsteak” translates to what we call rump.)
It’s a little more chewy than a classic American-style steak ... I want it med-rare, so I know what temperature to use, but I think I need to let it cook longer. Any thoughts?
130F or 54.4C for 3 hours
The graphic is a nice touch, but I have NO idea where the meats come from, so it’s not helpful to me! I'd like a list of tough, tender, etc. I have to keep coming on line to look for recipes, though all I want is the time and temps in them. I bought cook books that have them listed, too.
6lb lamb shoulder roast. How long and what temp to get medium rare?
Gr
checkout chefsteps cuts
