Go to the Recipe: Sous Vide Pastrami
Could you use one of those little smokers you see on amazon, the cylindrical ones with the pipe? For those of use who live in a city setting, a real smoker is not very realistic.
Ended up going with the cook it like a brisket method. Came out great!
Thank you! I think I am going to sous vide and then cold smoke 4-6 hours and see how that comes out. My only other idea is to follow the same brine and rub method, but skip the sous vide entirely and just smoke at 225ish, and follow a similar method like for brisket (wrap at 170ish, finish at 200).
Hi again as I was making this again to try the other order of operations I read the post on equilibrium brining and it said "If the meat has a lot of bone, subtract the approximate weight of the bone." Are the percentages of salt and sugar used in the brine calculated assuming that the short ribs in this recipe are x% bone by weight so the meat is in an effectively higher concentration brine? If so what would the actual concentration be and how much bone/ % of bone, do you guys assume are in a short rib plate. If I were to make this with brisket which is all meat would I still make a brine with 2.3% salt and 4.4% sugar?
I actually just did the sous vide then smoke method and smoked it at 200 like it says in the last paragraph of the before we begin section, you don't really get much of a typical bark but do get a slight hint of the smoke and the temperature only rose a few degrees from the 147 sous vide temp. I tried the other order of operations last time but smoked it like a typical short rib to a temp of around 200 and then sous vided it at 162 for 24 hours. I didn't really get much, if any, smoke flavor but it seemed closer to pastrami ive had at known delis in terms of flavor and with a softer texture probably due to fully smoking it first. Given that the 1 hour of smoking at 200 didn't do much besides give it some smoky flavor I think you could get away with cold smoking it for an hour and achieve roughly the same effect.
I have an offset smoker, and it can be hard to maintain a temp of 150 degrees or lower. I'm wondering if I can cold smoke after it's been sous vide? I feel like the temp will be too low to give it a nice bark (~75F), but it would sure be very smoky. I could also throw some charcoal in the firebox to bring the temp up a little bit, and still use the cold smoke box. Thoughts?
Thanks for the thorough response
Hey J!
1. Yes, you can work around sous vide by using an oven. The temperature in the oven will need to be much hotter than 150 °F though to achieve similar doneness we're chasing in this recipe. Here is a link to an indoor version of a barbecue brisket that I did awhile back LINK. 2. I believe this has to do with the pastrami being in a gradient style brine apposed to an equilibrium style brine. like a dry cure, gradient brines deliver a higher concentration of salt. In some cases if the concentration is so high it then needs to be soaked in water to lower the concentration of salt to make it pleasant to eat. Our recipe here is for an equilibrium style brine that has a dialed amount of salt and sugar allowing you to skip the soaking step before cooking. For a bit more on brining check out this page LINK.
3. I've certainly snuck in an extra 3 bone plate in the past to large batches of pastrami and it worked out great and tasted great. You likely will be fine with just an extra plate. Lets back to the second question for a sec. Because this is an equilibrium brine the amount of salt and sugar needed factors in the weight of the meat. So yes if you add more meat the concentration of salt and sugar will then be lowered.
That being said if your brine is already made you can adjust it. This recipe is using about 2.3% kosher salt to the total weight of water and meat and 4.4% sugar. You can calculate the additional weight being added to find out how much more salt and sugar you will need. I personally wouldn't bother scaling up all the spices!
I have a few questions,
1. Does this need the sous vide step can I just smoke wrap and hold at 150 for 6-12 hours in a holding oven like many contemporary barbeque places reccomend these days for brisket?
2. I've made pastrami brisket before using a different recipe and I always take the meat out of the brine and keep it in water for a day before smoking to lower the salt why isn't that done here?
3. The recipe makes quite a bit of brine, can I put another 3 bone plate in the brine or will the concentrations of salt and curing salt be off and therefore be unsafe?
Thanks
I always forget that this recipe makes a ton of brine. Far more than you would need for 5 to 6 kg of brisket especially if you brine in a large bag like Grant does. I assume I can save the rest of the brine somehow but for how long? What's the best way to do that? Or maybe just toss it and remember to make no more than half next time.
"Magic Meat" and "Meat Candy" were just a couple of comments at the table. This was my first time and I will make it again and again. It is a fantastic recipe to the T! I make two 3 bone-in plates with a ten pound brisket combined all in one brine and then sous vide separate bags with smoking in between.
i hava a same question, anyone try that?
Wish to make but unfortunately do not have a smoker. anyway to prepare in oven? Liquid smoke?
Hey Paul. Unfortunately I haven't had Katz's pastrami....YET! Is there a characteristic thats unique to it that you like more, such as more smoke flavor?
I've been making this recipe since it came out, although I always do a brisket. It's amazing pastrami and I've been told more than once that it's "better than Katz's". But here's my question: Can you do a Katz's replica recipe? I bought one of their pastramis recently (shipped). It comes as an inedible piece of leather that you literally have to boil for 3 hours to rehydrate. I've heard that it brines for 3 weeks or something insane and it clearly must smoke for days or something to become that rock or whatever they ship.
Any way to reverse engineer what they do?
I'll answer, since I do this all the time with brisket (I've actually never done the recipe with short ribs...). Times and temp are the same. It's a brilliant recipe for home made brisket pastrami. I'm honestly not sure why they even do it with short ribs--they're so much more expensive and hard to get compared to a brisket, and the brisket pastrami turns out so well. I have one on the smoker now!
I have a 17 lb brisket. Do the cooking temps and times change for that size brisket versus the smaller ribs?
Too much sugar. Other than that it’s a solid recipe and methodology. I’d definitely recommend brining for 5-7 days
If food safe cold a very long time, even a month. You will develop more spice and tannin flavors however.
I was thinking exactly the same. Did you try that?
This recipe is amazing. People raved about it.
Question: what do you think about using prime rib instead of beef ribs?
I wish if this can be answered!
I freaked out when I opened the bag and it was slimy.i did 4 days also,now cooking for 24 hours and I was really in doubt if I was about to poison my guest lol. Glad I saw this.
So why does it turn slimy?
It's for the brine and not dry cure.
60g of Prague powder too much? they recommend 1.5 g per kg of meat
How long can you let the meat brine? Is 7 days the max?
Hello, if I was to try the sous Vide option then rub & smoke can anyone tell me how long I should let the meat cool? Should i put it in the refrigerator? Thank you
I’ve done this recipe using short ribs several time using the brine-smoke-sous vide approach (always amazing), but was looking to try the brine-sous vide-smoke approach this time since plan on serving right away. If one of the disadvantages of the method is less adherence of the spice rub, would you recommend maybe applying a wet coating (oil, mustard,etc) prior to the dry spices to help the spices adhere? Or would this affect the flavor too much?
With this recipe, you can swap out brisket without changing the time's temps or recipe. We do that frequently here in the studio.
Real NY pastrami is made from brisket. It seems like buying short rib plates won't give as much meat in the final results for all the time spent on it. What about recipes for brisket, both whole, point cut (best!), or flats?
As you are marketing these recipes and procedures to the general public who may have great smokers, great sous vide machines, etc, please keep in mind that we do NOT have commercial equipment and have no control over the humidity in our smokers or ovens.
You should really keep this in mind as we are most likely the majority of your audience. Perhaps you can add a "commercial tips" at the end for people in the restaurant business.
Lastly, it would help if you keep the same standard of measurements within the same paragraph. You mix Celcius and F above which is confusing for most people. Just my 2 cents fwiw.
Absolutely.
_A_fter the brine and sous vide can you cool or freeze the short ribs and smoke them at a later date?
When doing this recipe, i have noticed that the brine turned quite "slimy" after about the 4th day. After cooking everything turned out great, but im curious if that is a normal thing or if there might be something wrong with my process. I have done it twice already and experienced the same both times. Any thoughts on this?
Hi. If you calculate 300g salt divided by 9000g water +4000g short ribs. You’re at 2.3% salt so I guess the salt is just right for a fatty piece of meat like short ribs. When you add water you take its weight into calculation when weighing the salt. I’d say you do a dry brine in vaccul bag it will take significantly more time than 7 days to reach equilibrium. Just my thought.
Hello. If I’m using a brisket for this, and don’t have a smoker. Can I do the smoker step in the oven to mimic the whole drying( like the bbq brisket recipe) then add the liquid smoke to the bag and Sousvide ?
Thank you.
Gotta season the rub too. My understanding is that rubs are not only flavor builders but can act in tandem with brined or marinated meats. The catch is that the rub is not overly salted, just enough to season the chilies or spices that are in the rub since they are food too.
I'm kind of confused as to why salt was added to the rub post brining? Rubs are usually salt free post brine no?
Man, the amount of prague powder seems way over the normal amount. 15g of prague powder for 1 kg of bone-in short ribs? What's a lower ratio you recommend per KG?
Hi Ken, 1kg is the equivalent to 1 liter.
Seriously, 9kg water? How do you measure 9kg? Is it too much to ask for gallons/liters or really, any equivalent liquid measurement?
Hi, I am just curious why equilibrium brining is not used here? You have described it here: https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/equilibrium-brining. I have also made corned beef using dry brining in a vacuum bag. The idea here is to get the salt(s) percentages just right, or have I misunderstood something?
Why no mention of injecting the brine? Among all the ingredients only salt and instacure have the right electrical properties and small enough molecular size to diffuse through the meat in a 7 day brine. Before applying a curing brine I like to heat and chill it once to better distribute the flavors, then filter it well enough to prevent my injector from clogging (saving everything filtered), then inject the liquid (capturing any extra), re-mix the remaining and recovered liquid with the filtered solids, then carry on normally with the brining step. This results in a MUCH quicker cure, and better flavor distribution throughout the meat. Google "nitrite curing calculator" for more detail.
Can someone help me understand timing on the brine if I wanted to use a brisket instead?
I need to make this asap. I can't stress enough how much I love chefsteps. You guys have elevated my cooking tremendously. Your site is well worth the money!
Great question! Both methods produce great pastrami, but yes, there are small differences in the final product, and each method comes with its pros and cons. We addressed this in the recipe as a collapsible tip but realized that the information was easy to miss, so we've moved it to the Before we begin section. Hope that helps!
They address this in the above directions.
There is difference between the video and te recipe . In the video is brine, cook sous vide, apply the rub then smoke, On the recipe is brine, apply the rub, smoke and then cook sous vide.
Does is change the final product depending on the method you use, ??
If this helps anyone, I've made this many times with whole packer briskets and it's the best pastrami I've ever had (or anyone I've made it for). I generally smoke it as low as I can for a long time (6-8 hours at least), then into a vac bag and in the Sous vide. Right out of the SV into the freezer usually and it lasts ages because it's both smoked and cured. It's off the chart good.
Ambient dry bulb smoker temperature should be 65 C, internal temperature of the meat should reach 131 in that time if 65% humidity is attained. Wet bulb temperature should be 131. The meat will be pasteurized in the sous-vide step, not to mention it's already quite salty.
Meat is not as porous as vegetables, so vacuum-packing won't speed up the process. It does make it take less space in your fridge though.
Boneless ribs will work.
There seems to be some ambiguity in step 8 and related comments: should the ribs be smoked at an ambient temperature of 149 °F / 65 °C for five to seven hours - or is that the internal temperature of the meat? As others have noted, 149 ambient is tough to get/hold in traditional smokers and leaves the internal meat for an extended time in the "danger zone".
Two questions:
1) I've got a chamber vac. Would it work to chamber vac the ribs with the brine (Step 4) so they don't have to marinate for 7 whole days? I've done this kind of "flash pickling" with vegetables before and they come out great.
2) Does this work well with boneless short ribs, or is the bone essential?
Thanks!
There is a fat and leaner side to the whole 12-16 lb. brisket. It's not always easy to tell in store bought cuts which side you have purchased. While they have similar fat content to Plate ribs I think that ribs have more connective tissue/Collagen than Brisket and because of that would be more tender after Sous Vide.
_H_ow bout if i sub brisket for this recipe ?
